Why is Moso so hard to grow large?

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Robbie78
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Why is Moso so hard to grow large?

Post by Robbie78 »

Hi I'm looking at buying some property with the goal to have a large Moso grove, around 1/4 to 1/2 in acre in size. I ve noticed that there aren't many pictures of large sized Moso growing In peoples yards. I've heard Moso is temperamental and harder to grow than other bamboo, why is this? If I do this I'm thinking of starting with large as possible plants.
stevelau1911
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Re: Why is Moso so hard to grow large?

Post by stevelau1911 »

I'm hoping for my moso bicolor to cover that much ground some day, and there are many reasons why it is harder to do so. Unlike the aureosulcatas, parvifolia, rubromarginata, and other tough bamboos, moso is pretty delicate.

Here are some of the reasons why I think moso is not grown as common.

1. It is harder to propagate
2. It is not drought or flood tolerant
3. It is less cold hardy, perhaps 5-10F depending on the source
4. In most cases it is slow to spread or upsize
5. Leaves tend to curl up under extreme heat more than that of other bamboos

Here's the picture blog showing how it performed in zone 6 after 4 seasons http://www.bambooweb.info/bb/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3520

It only reached 0.75 inches by just under 8ft so since it didn't look like it would ever get to giant proportions, I replaced it with the bicolor which will probably still top off at around 15ft, even with winter protection.
canadianplant
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Re: Why is Moso so hard to grow large?

Post by canadianplant »

I have read "moso", needs hot, humid temps to really get big. I dont think you guys have that in oregon...... It will survive there more then likely, but since its cool there, it probably wont get over 10 feet (not from experience, i read this a few days ago)
Tarzanus
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Re: Why is Moso so hard to grow large?

Post by Tarzanus »

Last year I've had numerous seedlings and lost almost all because of overwatering that started when I was away and gave an order to family members to keep an eye on the seedlings. At least one pair of eyes too many... :lol: I should transplant every single one when I still had a good chance.

Well, some of them are still struggling and might survive the winter. I intend to plant them outside, protected from overheated pots and especially from flooding. We learn every day, I'll hide bamboos when I go on vacations this year :mrgreen: .

Despite all problems it seems one of the Moso seedlings survived the flooding and overheated black plastic pot and started running in the fall. It lost most of it's leaves, but it's kind of exploding at the moment. It had red tanned sheat leaves in the fall and it looks like they will be the same this spring. I've not seen any shoots came out of rhizomes that are most likely deeper than original clump. but all around the clump there are new shoots emerging. Even the ones that aborted in the late fall.

Image

Perhaps I've got myself an extra resilient specimen. :D
Samajax
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Re: Why is Moso so hard to grow large?

Post by Samajax »

Moso in the US is best grown in the SE- hot summers, high humidity, high rain fall, winters below 20 degrees rare.

One of the best US groves is on Avery Island- Louisiana.

If you look at Oregon and compare to these states, you'll see a big difference- plus you are at a higher latitude.

Here is a bit of data on Washington state growing, but the pictures are from Georgia....

http://www.bamboofarmingusa.com/Phyllos ... Shoot.html
stevelau1911
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Re: Why is Moso so hard to grow large?

Post by stevelau1911 »

Moso seems to be one of the most delicate bamboos I've ever tried, especially the yellow kind. This bamboo seems to put so much energy into making high quality culms that branch out almost like a tree while making a smaller number of them. I've also read that this species holds a majority of its energy in the culms instead of the rhizomes so if the rhizome neck connection is ever damaged or the roots are broken, that may be the end. Usually a moso division takes a lot longer to fill out its pot than a parvifolia with feeder roots which will result in slower recovery times. This may be one of the reasons why it can't handle cool wet conditions very well.

Here's mine which looked great when it was untarped, but after some major rains, the top part looks like crap. I just hope it leafs back out all the way and has enough energy to grow take up some space this year.
Image
Alan_L
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Re: Why is Moso so hard to grow large?

Post by Alan_L »

Steve -- any bamboo grown in a zone colder than it can handle will act like that. When grown under the right conditions (and when no longer a juvenile plant) I'm sure moso isn't "delicate".
Markj
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Re: Why is Moso so hard to grow large?

Post by Markj »

Just up the road from Falmounth( Cornwall, Uk ) is an old established MOSO plant with culms @ 5.5 inches dia ( carwinion ) Check out the summer temps- Sort of blasts a hole in the 'heat is required for large size'

Just substitute time for heat and all will be well in the end :roll:




http://www.cornwall-online.co.uk/weather.htm


Falmouth (Riveria Coast)

Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
Hours of sun 58 78 120.2 180.9 216.2 215.3 209.3 192.3 152.4 104.6 71.8 51.9
Max. Temp Celcius 8.8 8.5 9.8 11.9 14.5 17.4 19.1 19 17.2 14.6 11.4 9.9
Min. Temp Celcius 3.9 3.5 4.5 5.8 8.1 10.8 12.5 12.8 11.3 5.9 6.3 5.1
Sea Temp. 8 9 9 10 11 12 15 16 14 13 13 8
Rainfall (mm) 130 103 92 61 64 59 65 79 91 99 127 132
Bamboo...Please note... This plant is seriously addictive and you may lose interest in other, less rewarding plants!
Alan_L
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Re: Why is Moso so hard to grow large?

Post by Alan_L »

Markj wrote:Just substitute time for heat and all will be well in the end
And don't expect it to behave this way in z6.

5.5" would be quite a sight, considering a 2" culm looks pretty huge to me! :)
bigone5500
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Re: Why is Moso so hard to grow large?

Post by bigone5500 »

I'm in zone 8 and purchased a couple moso from Steve. One of them was only about 2' tall and had small diameter culms. I planted them covering the root mass with organic humus and manure topping it off with cedar mulch. The next spring I had culms over 6' tall...

I also used some miracle grow on the plants (which may contribute to the height achieved) but have not used any after the initial planting. This spring will be their second in ground here.
bamboothew
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Re: Why is Moso so hard to grow large?

Post by bamboothew »

Markj wrote:Just up the road from Falmounth( Cornwall, Uk ) is an old established MOSO plant with culms @ 5.5 inches dia ( carwinion ) Check out the summer temps- Sort of blasts a hole in the 'heat is required for large size'

Just substitute time for heat and all will be well in the end :roll:




http://www.cornwall-online.co.uk/weather.htm


Falmouth (Riveria Coast)

Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
Hours of sun 58 78 120.2 180.9 216.2 215.3 209.3 192.3 152.4 104.6 71.8 51.9
Max. Temp Celcius 8.8 8.5 9.8 11.9 14.5 17.4 19.1 19 17.2 14.6 11.4 9.9
Min. Temp Celcius 3.9 3.5 4.5 5.8 8.1 10.8 12.5 12.8 11.3 5.9 6.3 5.1
Sea Temp. 8 9 9 10 11 12 15 16 14 13 13 8
Rainfall (mm) 130 103 92 61 64 59 65 79 91 99 127 132
Interesting, MarkJ, I had never heard before that there is large moso is Europe! I know that there are nice groves in the PNW as well, some with over 3" culms and they are still upsizing, so perhaps they will eventually get to 5"? Btw, even here in the SE US it seems to top out around 6" even in very old groves, but I have never seen a grove of moso that was actually kept fertilized and otherwise properly groomed, so I wonder if it is possible to get anywhere near its supposed 8" maximum diameter :?:
God Bless,

Matthew

===============================

Genesis 2:8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there He put the man whom He had formed.
Samajax
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Re: Why is Moso so hard to grow large?

Post by Samajax »

Notice I said "best" grown. Bamboo Garden in Oregon has a paragraph on their Moso listing regarding sizing up in the Portland area.

http://www.bamboogarden.com/Phyllostach ... 20Moso.htm

It is funny, but most of the pictures from that listing are from Louisiana, Italy and France.

I can't imagine that Japan has South East US style summers, so no, heat is not always the answer- but like your said, time is on their side.

Whittaker (taming the dragon) has some great things to say about growing Moso in Britain- just be willing to wait 15-20 years for some true 4-5" culms.

I would love to visit a mature grove- must be a thing of beauty. Oh to live on a plot of land where I could let the giants run free...No barriers, no root pruning, just letting them go where they would.
Robbie78
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Re: Why is Moso so hard to grow large?

Post by Robbie78 »

Ive been to bamboo garden many times and they do have a nice grove, I believe last year they had some 4 inch culms last year. Has any one started with a large specimen say around 25 feet tall and with large culms? I did this with my atro, henon, and bisetti and had good results, so I'm curious if it would be easier to grow Moso starting out with a large 25 gallon pot
Tarzanus
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Re: Why is Moso so hard to grow large?

Post by Tarzanus »

It's always easier to start with monstrous bamboo division :D
rickw
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Re: Why is Moso so hard to grow large?

Post by rickw »

Even under ideal conditions, with over 50" of rain annually, Moso is very slow to upsize. My 4yr old Moso that was planted as a 5+ gal size 4' plant, has grown to 10'-12' height but the diameter of the largest of the new shoots are barely 1", only slightly thicker than last years.

In comparison, my Japanese Timber planted from a 1 gal size 3 yrs ago, has produced culms twice as thick as the Moso. My Ph Aurea that was 1/2" diameter last year has larger diameter shoots than the Moso this year. At some point, the Moso will produce large diameter culms but I don't expect the truly big culms for another decade.
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