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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:50 pm 
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Location: Dovercourt ,Harwich,U.K.
This might sound like a silly question to some of you experts, but here you go is there any difference between Phyllostachys Vivax and Phyllostachys vivax 'McClure'


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:36 am 
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No replys is that because I am being really dumb or am I missing something?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:14 pm
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Location: Carmichael, CA
Bamboo Society Membership: ABS - America
My guess is that no one who read your post knows the answer. My understanding of Vivax - read some of the articles on kimmei.com - is that lots of us who bought Vivax ended up with something else due to mix ups on the export country end of things. So to find the actual McClure form seems like a long shot the sourcing & documentation would have to be very solid, even if someone replied here I would be interested in seeing the trail of documentation to learn if indeed it was the proper clone they spoke of.

Vivax, Dulcis, Shanghai 3, Prominens, Bambusoides and surely others seem to me to be mixed up and messy out there so take any reply you do get with that in mind.

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Brad Salmon, zone 9 Esparto, CA


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:29 pm 
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Location: plus 700ft in the Santa Cruz Mtns, 8 miles from the Pacific 35 miles S. of San Jose
Didn't spend much time or analysis on this but the name McClure seems to be named after a Dr. McClure who seems to have found this vivax growing in the U.S. Somewhere along the line U. of Washington claimed it's existence. There is no evidence of McClure vivax in the ABS species list. There is no vivax native to the U.S. Rgds


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:43 pm 
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Thanks brad, I have green Vivax but was thinking of buying Vivax 'McClure ' from a very reputable company in the Netherlands for my collection would it be worth it though


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:53 am 
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Location: on several acres of former clearcut corn field near folsom,la. loam concrete when dry, jello when wet.
Fred Alonzo McClure is the big chief of bamboo!! some proper respect please!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:50 am 
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Location: SE TX, Zone 9a
Deane wrote:
This might sound like a silly question to some of you experts, but here you go is there any difference between Phyllostachys Vivax and Phyllostachys vivax 'McClure'

I think there may be some confusion here. Phyllostachys vivax was formally described and named by F. A. McClure in 1945 in the Journal of the Washington Academy of Sciences. See the original description here: http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/122708#page/346/mode/1up

According to international rules, it would be correct to refer to any clone of Phyllostachys vivax as "Phyllostachys vivax McClure", because he named the species. Again, "Phyllostachys vivax McClure" does not refer to a particular clone, but rather to the species as a whole. You can read about the standards for author citation here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Author_citation_(botany)

I have seen cases where horticulturalists confused the naming author citation with a cultivar name. If you could track down a division of the type plant that McClure used to prepare the original description of the species, you would be assured of having the actual species, and not an imposter. However, any correctly identified specimen of Phyllostachys vivax could properly be referred to as "Phyllostachys vivax McClure". If someone has named a specific clone of Phyllostachys vivax with the cultivar name 'McClure', I would ask them what unique features this clone possesses, and what proof they have that it is actually a unique clone. It is possible that someone is just using the name McClure to indicate that they have the real species for sale, and not an imposter.

Keep in mind that, since bamboos are clonally propagated, some bamboos may exist in cultivation as only one or a few clones. I have no specific knowledge of this species, but it is possible that most of the Phyllostachys vivax in cultivation belongs to the same clone as McClure's type specimen.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:03 pm 
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fredgpops wrote:
Didn't spend much time or analysis on this but the name McClure seems to be named after a Dr. McClure who seems to have found this vivax growing in the U.S. Somewhere along the line U. of Washington claimed it's existence. There is no evidence of McClure vivax in the ABS species list. There is no vivax native to the U.S. Rgds

From what Kimmei said "Phyllostachys vivax 'McClure' Direct reproduction of the Ph. vivax imported in the USA by McClure" it seems McClure imported Vivax to USA and don't Discover it in USA
Thanks Glen that's made it easier to understand


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:49 pm 
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Deane wrote:
From what Kimmei said "Phyllostachys vivax 'McClure' Direct reproduction of the Ph. vivax imported in the USA by McClure" it seems McClure imported Vivax to USA and don't Discover it in USA
Thanks Glen that's made it easier to understand

According to McClure in Bamboos of the Genus Phyllostachys Under Cultivation in the United States (1957), "P. vivax was obtained in the vicinity of Tang-si, Chekiang Province, China, by Frank N. Meyer in 1907."

Is there a systemic problem in Europe with the identity of plants labeled as Phyllostachys vivax? I have done as you are considering and obtained plants from "special sources", just because I was certain of their provenance. Sometimes the plants are the same as the commonly available form, and sometimes they are unique.

If there is confusion in your country as to the identity of this species, and you can afford it, I see no harm in obtaining the plant. On the other hand, I have seen no information to indicate that the type specimen used by McClure is any different than other green P. vivax plants.


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