BAMBOOWEB.INFO
It is currently Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:08 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Mites and options
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:52 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Olympia, WA
Hello, all.

This summer I bought several bamboos from a nearby bamboo nursery. They had mites, and I didn't realize it at the time. I planted most of them and took four to an exchange with an unwitting friend. The friend informed me that evening that two of the four had mites. Being new to bamboo, I wouldn't have known what to look for, let alone that I should look. Now I know both.

So, I looked around my grovelets, and I found that all seven of the plants I got from that seller had mites. In fact, so did most of the plants from another seller (all acquired this spring). But none of my other plants (mostly year-old) appear to be infested. Yet.

For context, I have a total of 63 bamboos. I'd say a dozen (all from two sellers) were confirmed to have mites. I've had 20 new (clean) plants arrive in the past two months. All of those are so far unaffected to my eye. I'd really like to plant them, but I don't want to risk them getting mites. So the potted new arrivals are all sequestered far away from the known mite-y plants.

The first spraying I did was using Phil Davidson's soap and cooking oil approach (http://www.bamboo.org/GeneralInfoPages/BambooMites.html#OtherResources). For the second and third, I replaced the cooking oil with neem oil. I'd say the three sprayings have all been about 10 days apart, never as long as two weeks or as little as one week. When I spray, I spray all 63 plants, starting with the clean ones, and doing my best to ensure that the underside of every leaf gets completely covered. Before the third spraying, I seriously trimmed all of the infested plants so as to make access much, much easier. I did the same to some of the apparently unaffected plants. I'm very careful not to handle buggy plants before non-buggy ones. I figure I can probably get a fourth spraying in, but I doubt there will be opportunity for others.

Bottom line: I want these things gone and I don't want them spreading to other plants. I really don't want to use synthetic chemicals. Our household is pretty much chemical-free, and we'd like to keep it that way. So, my questions are:

1) What will I see or not see that will give me confidence that the mites are gone? I do still find webbing under leaves here and there. Is that a clear indicator that there are still mites?

2) How far apart do plants have to be to be considered quarantined? Is it unwise to go ahead and plant as long as the location is <some distance> away from plants that may still have mites?

3) Can I stop spraying the clean plants that are more than <some distance> away from the ones that may be infested? If I could, that would let me be more focused in the eradication effort.

4) Does it do no good whatsoever to spray while it's raining? Any day now, it will start raining and not stop for months. If the mites are still here when that time comes, have they won?

5) Is it worth cutting the infested plants to the ground? I'll gladly do it if it means eliminating the bugs.

I've learned a lot this year about where (not) to acquire bamboo. In the process, I may have added myself to that list.

Thank you all for any suggestions you may have.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mites and options
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:35 pm
Posts: 685
Location: Not here
Well, I have never seen or heard of anyone that eradicated a boo mites without using some form of miticide. Oil and soap only go so far (about 90% effective in tests, which is not enough). My brother was able to eradicate his mites on his fairly sizable collection on an 8,000 sq foot lot, but I noticed them on his plants less than a month from the original outbreak. He was able to spray from the fall through the following spring and had good results. He used insecticidal soap mixed with several different miticides in rotation (generic Avid, Bayer, and Talstar), and he also used ag oil with soap in separate sprayings. He has a really good backpack sprayer as well so he could reach the 3 foot tall leaves. This is actually the best time to spray, as mite activity will be lower now that cooler weather is coming. Once it warms up, spider mites go into high gear (as they likely have this weekend). Also if you are going to use ag oil you should spray when it is under 60 deg. F. out or you can burn the leaves.

I live not far south of you (north Oregon Cascades west of Mt Hood), and it does not rain ~every~ day in the fall and winter here. It rains a lot here (I get over 80 inches a year) but even here there are breaks in the weather. Same when I lived in the coast range and we got over 120 inches a year. There have been several storms through here in the past few weeks, and it is nice and sunny now. Downright balmy this October here. Actually this is the best summer I have experience in the PNW, and I have lived here on and off for 50 years. It should be clear and cool for the rest of this week before the next system hits this weekend. Lots of time to spray. When spraying pesticides, it is usually only negated if it rains within 24 hours of spraying. Contact sprays are fairly fast, including soap and oil.

Looking for mites, use a loupe or a magnifier and look for them on the bottom of the leaves. Keep spraying even if there are no signs of them for several months. Keep infected plants as far away as possible from uninfected ones. I do not know of any clear cut safe distances, as birds and cats can move around large yards like mine with ease, and I have over an acre here. I put all boos that I buy or get in a far corner of my property when I bring them here and spray them with Avid or Talstar and ag oil regardless of how they look. I do not buy or bring any suspect plants here. If you cut any infested boo stalks, burn them or otherwise dispose of them so they are no where near your plants (like in the county dump, miles away). I would spray all your boos, regardless of infected or not from now through the spring. The winter cold weather will help.

Gene Merril is the only person that I know of other than my brother that has eradicated a bamboo mite infestation. I have been to many bamboo nurseries that have them in the western US. Most have them under control, and only sell plants that have been hit with Avid, Floramite, Talstar, or some similar miticide several times and are inspected and clean. Not all nurseries do that though. I know several growers that have been unable to get rid of their mites as well, even with miticides. Its a fairly common problem in the US. I have posted several times about mites on this forum over the years, and the best places to look online about mites are the OSU and WSU web sites. Personally I would use ag oil mixed with ag soap (a spreader), and then hit them again in 3 days, and then in a week use a miticide like Avid (or a generic) mixed with an ag soap spreader, and then use that again a week later, and then use ag oil and soap a week later, and then use a different miticide like Talstar for 2 applications, then it them with the soap and oil, and rotate for several months. Yes, you have to go nuclear on them.

Here are the results of sprays done on infected boos from Portland posted at WSU Vancouver (including soaps alone):

http://www.mountvernon.wsu.edu/ENTOMOLO ... Mite05.htm

Good luck!

_________________
Happy trails...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mites and options
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:56 am
Posts: 506
Location: Seabeck, Washington Zone 8b Elevation: 531 Feet
Hey guys,

I would be the unwitting friend that received four, (what I'd call "mildly") mite infested bamboos.

I'm kicking myself because we unloaded the plants right under my "wall" of S.Fastuosa, and, I'm pretty sure the mite-y plants were in direct contact with it for maybe an hour? After unloading the mite-y plants we went and toured ALL of my other in-ground bamboos...uggghh...

After Grabhorn left, I went back and was looking at the new plants, and first noticed some mite spots/webs on a few leaves. I immediately quarantined these infested plants (75ft or so from the nearest in-ground plants) watered all of the infested plants with Bayer Tree and Shrub Systemic (Imidacloprid 1.47% is the active ingredient.)

I also sprayed them & the S.Fastuosa & everything in the immediate area with Bayer 3-in-1 Insect, Disease, and Mite Control (Imidacloprid 0.47%, Tau-Fluvalinate 0.61%, Tebuconazole 0.65%)

It's been 1 month now, and the 4 infested plants have been sprayed with neem oil soap 4x and the bayer 3-in-1 insect, disease, & mite 2x. Don't see any remaining webs, or mites on the plants.

A few questions I have are:

Is Imidacloprid effective on bamboo mites? I've heard yes, but it's not listed as a miticide?

Should I be concerned when we toured the groves we might have unwittingly spread mites from previously unloading the mite-y plants?

I've been keeping a close eye on everything for the last month, everything looks good still, no webs or boo mites on anything I can see. The infected plants had all of the webs sprayed off with blasts of neem oil spray.

Since this happened in September, is it possible the coming winter will take out any mites before they have a chance to set up a foothold here?

I'm concerned that next summer boo mites are going to start popping up on everything here, after having been "mite free" for the last ten years...and that's going to devastate me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mites and options
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:52 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Olympia, WA
The amazing part is that he still calls himself my friend.

I talked today with the fellow who answered the phone at Evergreen Growers' Supply. He spoke very confidently about the effectiveness of Amblyseius fallacis in eradicating bamboo mites, saying that no bamboo growers that he knows have ever still had bamboo mites two years after using A. fallacis. He also said both (good and bad) mites go underground in the winter and that next summer will determine whether a re-treatment is necessary. So I've ordered some and will give it a try.

It sounds a little bit too-good-to-be-true, but it's compatible with what Van-Isle-bamboo was saying here. Ultimately, I figure it can't hurt to try.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mites and options
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:42 pm
Posts: 753
Location: American Fork, Utah High Desert, elevation 4566 feet, zone 5 or 6 depending on which source.
The use of the systemic may cause some problems with beneficial mites that may feed on the bad mites. If you are looking for good deals on the mites I have been buying my stuff from a company called Green Methods.com and another called Arbico. Green methods is a bit cheaper but Arbico has a nice catalog and excellent customer service as well. I have found neem oil to work on some species of mites as well and would have less of a long term effect and would probably be more compatible if you wanted to use predator mites in addition to another control method.

_________________
Nate Abbott
http://nathan-abbott.artistwebsites.com/art/all/bamboo/all


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mites and options
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:48 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Comox,BC
Mites can sure be a major problem and they sure are hard to get rid of. I'm not to sure if mine are totally gone but this last summer I havnt seen any damage or signs.

Here is what I did

I noticed the bamboo mites in the Late summer and started a chemical program with Avid. I sprayed three times, 7 days apart to make sure all the adults were killed. Later in the winter I noticed that they were still feeding on some of my groves. I really couldn't believe that they were alive and especially around in the winter( out winters on Vancouver Island are mild and wet ).

I bought a pressure washer with a soap dispenser and filled it with canola oil, liquid soap, and some End all mite killer. I sprayed that winter maybe 3-4 times. I figured that I could contact the mites and the webbing better with a pressure washer compared to a backpack sprayer. It was funny to smell the Palmolive all over the groves.

This last spring I used 2 applications of Judo, 2 avid and I have used a little Talstar too. In my 15L back pack sprayer I use 1/2 cup of Palmolive, 1/2 cup neem oil, 1/2 cup canola oil and the chosen chemical picked.

What I have noticed is a sudden out break of aphids this summer. Spider mites as well on everywhere around the yard, willow tree, brugmansias and lots else. I'm not to sure if it's the chemicals that made me such a bug magnet but it sure does seem like it.

Soooooo to get to the main point of the predator mites talked about in the last post. I contacted applied bionomics in Sidney BC and talked to Adam about how good the Fallicis predator deals with the webbing and the overwintering in my climate. He sounded very optimistic! I was excited and I still am at this point but I'm still crossing my fingers. I explained to him what seemed to have happened with the bug outbreak and he said that lots of people come to him after failed chemical treatments. Also he sent me a few other predators for some of the bugs in my bamboo such as aphids. what a great company to deal with!

I now am hoping that's can create a ecosystem of bamboo mite and bug predators so that I can eleminate the chemicals. Not that I'm a activist against them at all but for me it seemed like it brought it the other bugs.... Weird thought I know.

I'm hoping the fallacis can be the main fixer in my problem. I'll keep everyone posted on my results.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mites and options
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:56 am
Posts: 506
Location: Seabeck, Washington Zone 8b Elevation: 531 Feet
Just released 1,000 Fallacis mites into the groves here yesterday! Fingers crossed!

The four (previously?) mildly mite infested plants got another Bayer miticide + neem/soap spray Wednesday.

Not seeing any signs of boo mites on anything else but those plants here.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mites and options
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:52 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Olympia, WA
I also applied N. fallacis this week. It was kind of cool to see them scurrying around the inside of the lid when I opened the jar.

I exchanged emails with Robin Rosetta at OSU, and she said that they're probably close to diapause (hibernation), so they likely won't eat any bamboo mites this year. But she also said that since they're native to the PNW, they'll overwinter well here, and she recommended reapplying in early spring.

So I think I've done what I can for this season. I'll re-order and reapply fallacis in the spring, keep an eye out for the webs, and take it from there. Fingers crossed that it's at least been made finishable next year if not already done.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mites and options
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:48 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Comox,BC
I just wanted to say good luck to all that are trying the predators. Maybe we are on the brink of a discovery for eradication of these BM. Persistence is the key!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mites and options
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 1:28 pm
Posts: 1581
Location: HALIFAX, NS
I recently read on the EBS that oils are harmful to bamboos. I wish I had read that last year before I sprayed some with Scott's pyrethrum + canola oil, the Sasas and Indocalamus were almost defoliated, a couple of Phyllos had browning. No signs of them this year but I relentless washed the stems and burnt all leaves showing any underside signs, never got to the point of upper leaf damage.

I can't see how a predator mite or an insecticide (other than a systemic) could permeate that webbing over bamboos mite nesy. Their webbing is like no other, more like an impervious coat of silver paint or slug trail (when held at an angle to the light) than the webbings of other mites. You need a razor blade to remove them.

_________________
johnw coastal Nova Scotia


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mites and options
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:35 pm
Posts: 685
Location: Not here
I have used oil sprays on bamboos for many years now and I have never had any major (or minor) damage using it. The trick is that you have to spray when it is below 60 degrees F. or you will burn them. I use mostly Lilly Miller ag oil spray, which I still have a few bottles of. It is mineral oil based, and was made in Canada before they banned all that up there. I have not found a better replacement here yet. Neem oil is pretty close (and also no longer available in Canada from what I read).

Here the biggest problem is whitefly, which can be a real problem depending in the weather. Avid has he added benefit for working really well on whitefly and aphids, so I usually spray once with Avid and a spreader in the spring to cut their numbers down. That reduces the black sooty leaves and messy look. This past spring/summer here was a lot warmer and drier than most, and last winter was really cold due to the polar vortexes, so the bug population was really low this year.

_________________
Happy trails...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mites and options
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:35 pm
Posts: 685
Location: Not here
JWH wrote:
Hey guys,

A few questions I have are:

Is Imidacloprid effective on bamboo mites? I've heard yes, but it's not listed as a miticide?



In a word, no! Like NO NO NO NO NO! and NO! Actually it is worse than NO! Imidacloprid is an insecticide, and is completely ineffective for plant eating mites. Also you should never use Imidacloprid for mites, as it has been shown by WSU to actually increase their egg production. Yes, you will just make the mite problem worse with Imidacloprid. Read here about the effects of it in the two spotted spider mite (a relative to the most common bamboo mite in the PNW, the bamboo spider mite): http://aenews.wsu.edu/Jan02AENews/David ... mesPDF.pdf

JWH wrote:


Should I be concerned when we toured the groves we might have unwittingly spread mites from previously unloading the mite-y plants?



Yep. Mites generally stay in one place: on the undersides of leaves of bamboo plants. They wander around crawling on plants and will slowly spread on their own. But if you wipe the leaves, you will likely pick them up if they are present, and when you go to another bamboo plant and wipe against them, whallah. Infected. Birds will do the same thing, as will cats, kids, dogs, squirrels, rodents, tennis balls, etc. etc. Dragging mite-infected bamboos around and brushing the leaves against other bamboos is about as bad a thing as you can do. Guaranteed infestation.

JWH wrote:


I've been keeping a close eye on everything for the last month, everything looks good still, no webs or boo mites on anything I can see. The infected plants had all of the webs sprayed off with blasts of neem oil spray.

Since this happened in September, is it possible the coming winter will take out any mites before they have a chance to set up a foothold here?



I would not rely on winter killing off the mites. Nor would I rely on eye sight, aided or otherwise in finding all the webs and all the many stages of the tiny creatures. We do not get cold enough here in the PNW to eradicate them. Low temperatures will certainly slow them down, but it only takes a few, or even one egg-laying mite to create a rampant infestation. As I posted above, I would periodically spray through the fall and winter, and rotate with an effective spider mite specific spray like Avid or Talstar with oil and soap.

JWH wrote:


I'm concerned that next summer boo mites are going to start popping up on everything here, after having been "mite free" for the last ten years...and that's going to devastate me.


Yes, that was the situation with my brother 2 years ago. He had nightmares of his boo collection turning to a leaf-streaked mess, and he was vigilant and went with the nuclear program and is now mite-free. He like you, he had early detection (me) and that helps a lot. The idea is to kill off the ones that you have, and keep the uninfected plants from getting them. Also avoid going to mite-infected nurseries and bamboo stands. You can bring them home on your clothes. Generally washing your clothes will get rid of them, the soap drowns them by lowering the surface tension of water. I use Borax in my laundry to kill fleas anyway (I am allergic to their bites) and that seems to work well on mites as well.

Avid can be had for cheap in generic form and is available in smaller amounts on Ebay, and Talstar is also cheap on Ebay. Talstar is commonly sold for controlling bed bugs, fleas and ticks but works well for mites. Avid is also a fairly broad spectrum insecticide and miticide. As for using biological controls for bamboo mites, good luck with that. May as well start naming your boo mites because they are going to be your permanent pets as long as you have bamboo. You have to be 100% effective to get rid of mites. 90% just does not work which is the best that soap, oil and predators can do, even in ideal laboratory conditions. Even 99% is not good enough.

_________________
Happy trails...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mites and options
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 1:28 pm
Posts: 1581
Location: HALIFAX, NS
<Shmubamboo wrote: Also avoid going to mite-infected nurseries and bamboo stands. You can bring them home on your clothes.>

There's the rub. The only western-based bamboo nursery I have ever received mite-free plants from was Booshoot. No doubt tissue-culturing can do that as opposed to traditionally propagated bamboos. However Booshoot's list is pretty limited and so one has to resort to western nurseries with a bigger selection of both bamboos and mites.

Good to know that about imidichlorprid. When washing down bamboo leaves it's imperative to trash or burn all rags and papertowel when you move from one bamboo to the next, hand-washing in plenty of soap as well - think Phytophthora or Ebola.

_________________
johnw coastal Nova Scotia


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mites and options
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:09 am
Posts: 142
Location: Prince Edward Island Canada - Zone 5
Growing bamboo in zone 5 has many challenges and I really didn't need the mites that showed up last summer. However, a long cold winter seems to have done the trick. No signs of mites anywhere. (I did cut and burn all visibly infested culms but there would have been others that were missed) I know that doesn't help you guys somewhere warmer but a bunch of nights at -25 or colder seems to have done the trick. I thought it was wort sharing. Time will tell if they are all gone or if a few survivors will bring the infestations back.


TC in PEI

_________________
TC
http://gardenitis.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group