Bamboo species naming conventions

[va_highlander]

I'll probably hate myself in the morning...

Joseph,

I can definitely see where you're coming from. Quite often, the only means we have of mining a forum like this for the invaluable nuggets of information posted here is through the search function. Without a tolerably accurate nomenclature, an effective search is almost impossible. So, in that sense, you are quite correct and I welcome your attempt to be as accurate as possible in your own posts.

Now, I'm a stickler about these sorts of things myself, but I don't personally think that necessarily gives me the right to dictate my own standards to others. You are of course free to conduct yourself as you see fit. I don't think that your correcting the faux pas of other posters will bring about the downfall of this forum, but it seems obvious that whatever success you have will be limited at best. Some will welcome your corrections, some will disagree with your approach, and some will have their feel-bads hurt. Some posters will be p*ss*d off and, in all likelihood, there will be the occasional rapscallion who will deliberately defy your conventions in the hope that it might p*ss you off. Of all these potential outcomes, only one serves your purpose and the others are frankly inevitable, wholly beyond your control.

We have this in common with our bamboo: sometimes we do as we damned well please, regardless of prevailing conditions and conventional wisdom. I for one think that a marvelous thing.

[foxd]

[quote="Jonathan Poston"]Please, please tell me that is a spoof? /quote]

I could tell you it was a spoof, but it wouldn't be a true statement.

I understand the rest of the episodes are not to see the light of day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heil_Honey_I'm_Home!

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I too agree with keeping things informal. Long complicated Latin names, when everyone knows what we are referring to, don't really aid communication. Now if we were writing an article for publication it would be different.

[va_highlander]

If we get really picky about naming conventions, shouldn't we all have to learn Chinese/Japanese/etc.? I seriously doubt that Bissetii was called such in China when it was first noticed eons ago.

P bissetii is easy, as the Chinese apparently have but one name for that one, best I can tell:

http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/So ... l#bissetii

Chinese nomenclature isn't always so simple, though. For instance, there are at least five different names for Tonkin cane:

http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/So ... l#amabilis

Master list of Chinese names here, if anyone's interested:

http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/So ... index.html

Head page for "Sorting the Names of Bamboos" here:

http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/So ... names.html

Gawd, I feel so geekly...

As an aside, I was fascinated to discover that P nigra is known as "purple bamboo" - zizhu - to the Chinese. It seems in some ways a more accurate description than our "black".

[bambooweb]

P bissetii is easy, as the Chinese apparently have but one name for that one, best I can tell:

http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/So ... l#bissetii

To further muddy the waters.
From the December 2005 issue of Bamboo:

...the 1993 Tokyo International Code of Botanical Nomenclature "has recommended the use of -i for all specific epithets based on 'classical' names"

So P. bissetii should be P. bisseti.

Bill

[Thuja]

When the Chinese start a bamboo forum, if they decide to be informal then we won't understand a word they are saying. I'm sure we would expect them to use English and to use proper scientific nomenclature. I think we pretend to be an international forum here but really if we can't abide by a few simple conventions then our scope is really limited. I like informal too but some consideration should be made for people outside of our immediate domain. I thought we bambuseros were a bit more culturally aware than the average Joe. (Oops! I used an idiom.) Well, call me the devil's advocate but I think we can benefit by being open to criticism. Just take it or leave it, but don't blow it out of proportion. Anyway, I trust that you'll correct my thinking. That's what's great about online forums. I'll try not to get my feathers ruffled.

[needmore]

I think that this is a healthy discussion on how we mind our species naming conventions but I wish to be clear that a forum whereon a forum member who is not an administrator, a moderator or list owner takes it upon themselves to send corrections to other forum members, is not a forum on which I desire to participate. Such a thing would surely get ugly in a hurry.

[bamboozal]

I am in awe of the effort put in by those good people at the University of Melbourne who put up that page! Good link va_highlander!

So P. bissetii should be P. bisseti.

I'm done for now!! As it was, I had enough trouble remembering the number of "s"s and "t"s!!

[Steve in France]

It's about information and knowing what is what , which takes time and research.
Take Shanghai 3 , unless you know the story of how it got it's name and some of the history of the plant then having a name is of little use. It would not be so bad if there was just Shanghai 3 to learn about , but there is not just Shanghai 3 , there are loads more , there are even more Shanghai's , to get to number as Shanghai 3 you need to have numbered Shanghai 1 and Shanghai 2 first.
So a name , even a correct name is not always a help , in fact a web site like this , as good as it is , is the beginning . If your really want to know the whole story , compare plants and conditions , see mature examples of a plant and dig for the facts , well then you need to get out and meet the guys , have long phone sessions , experiment constantly and become a Bamboo nerd like me and a few of the other guys
Name , Names , now take Chimonobambusa tumidissinoda or Qionzhuea tumidissinoda , which is correct today ? Or if I just said " Is anyone growing tumidissinoda ? " and someone did not know what I ment , well , just Google Bamboo tumidissinoda and a whole World of info opens up. This is how I sarted to learn at UKOasis , I learn by researching what the Heck everyone was talking about , half the time I had no clue , even today one of the members posted about Nymphoides cristata , I did not know what it was beyond it must be a water plant because of the Nymphoides bit of the name , so I Googled and now I know , also because the topic was posted I now know my mate James Knock has some of these plants , wait a minute where is his phone number
Later
Steve

[Markj]

Let's also not forget, often the 'botanists' can't agree on a plant name either And if there still arguing amongst themselves how the hell are we supposed to get it right. And it's such a big group of plants covering many aspects, that no one person can cover it all. Is Chris S. still the list editor, when it comes to cold hardy stuff there is no one better but I bet Roy could fill in when it comes to the Tropicals

[va_highlander]

When the Chinese start a bamboo forum, if they decide to be informal then we won't understand a word they are saying. I'm sure we would expect them to use English and to use proper scientific nomenclature. I think we pretend to be an international forum here but really if we can't abide by a few simple conventions then our scope is really limited. I like informal too but some consideration should be made for people outside of our immediate domain. I thought we bambuseros were a bit more culturally aware than the average Joe. (Oops! I used an idiom.) Well, call me the devil's advocate but I think we can benefit by being open to criticism. Just take it or leave it, but don't blow it out of proportion. Anyway, I trust that you'll correct my thinking. That's what's great about online forums. I'll try not to get my feathers ruffled.

I can't disagree at all, really. The 'proper scientific' names we have are an honest - albeit sometimes flawed - attempt to facilitate the exchange of information. It's a useful tool. Value judgements shouldn't enter into it.

Formal discussions I've found of bamboo in Chinese, such as online government publications, usually include the botanical names. Then again, I found most of these by searching on the botanical names in the first place. I think that is a fair demonstration of the value of using those names.

[va_highlander]

P bissetii is easy, as the Chinese apparently have but one name for that one, best I can tell:

http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/So ... l#bissetii

To further muddy the waters.
From the December 2005 issue of Bamboo:

...the 1993 Tokyo International Code of Botanical Nomenclature "has recommended the use of -i for all specific epithets based on 'classical' names"

So P. bissetii should be P. bisseti.

I doubt these waters will ever be clear, to be honest. Taxonomy and nomenclature is always going to be more process than established 'fact'.

[va_highlander]

I am in awe of the effort put in by those good people at the University of Melbourne who put up that page! Good link va_highlander!

Isn't it amazing? Glad someone else found it as interesting as I did.

[Booboy]

Its not the having the correct spelling that bothers me. Its the correct pronunciation. When I talk to another bamboo person about bamboo I always wonder if he will laugh at my pronunciation. I used to say phy-low-sta-sheeze instead of phy-low-stack-is And I just recently learned that it is far-jeeze-ia not far-ges-ia. I once saw a web site that had the pronunciations on audio. Anyone know where that is?

[Steve in France]

Booboy many of us are in the same boat when it comes to pronunciation and not just with Bamboos. I gave up worrying about it and just pick up the correct sound from someone who knows whenever I can. It adds to the fun of phone calls about plants , what you find is in the end you have very funny conversations , with lots of " You know the one with the big leaves that has brown spots and .... what's it called ? " and " Oh yep that's the one , it's called ......, well I cannot remember just now, but anyway I've got a spare one if you want it "
Later
Steve

[Jonathan Poston]

Booboy wrote:

I once saw a web site that had the pronunciations on audio.

That's a great idea but it needs somekind of fairly standard English to work well. Living here in Liverpool I can imagine a strong scouse accent would make that idea unworkable.