Fertilizer

[needmore]

I recall earlier that some people were saying one should avoid high nitrogen fertilizers prior to spring shooting as it encourages a flush of small shoots by 'encouraging' immature buds to fire. Sooooo...why is it different at the start of rhizome growing season, why wouldn't that produce a flush of small rhizomes?

[ghmerrill]

I think that most of the info that you see posted like that comes from people who have had thier bamboo from a couple months to a year, and are seeing normal juvenile growth as something they "caused". I think that the worst that could happen if you fertilized with high nitrogen at the wrong time of year would be a case of fertilizer burn. I dont think that you could cause a mature grove to flush with small shoots out of season just by adding fertilizer

[Jerry Hamilton]

I put the nitrogen to my Henon and did not notice really small shoots in it except where I had dug a rootball or two out. I can see several rhizomes that is pushing up the horse manure that I put on it. Never been able to see them growing like this before. Can't wait till spring to see how it up sizes, then.

[Mackel in DFW]

Here's What I'm Trying-


TOTALLY ORGANIC



I've yet to hear a convincing argument pro or con. We do know that bamboo has evolved for millions of years in an organic environment. If you've got highly organic soil already, for example, why would you alter the chemistry so radically with inorganic amendments only to have it wash away, and repeat this process ad infinitum? Organic soil is very mild chemically. Anyone care to make a case either way?

[ghmerrill]

look at a grove that has never had fertilizer, then look at the same grove after fertilizing- larger growth the next year, more vivid green color.

[Jerry Hamilton]

My grove of Henon is one of those that had never been fertilzed untill this year. The color of the leaves is a lot darker now. Will have to wait until next year to see the upsize of it. Have noticed a lot of growth in the rihzomes allready.

[Mackel in DFW]

But the Question Is-


DRUMROLL


Adding inorganic fertilizer to an already richly composted soil, which I custom designed. 45% compost, 45% top soil, 10% lava sand...

C'mon guys, snap to attention

[dudley]

eventually the nutrients in your custom soil will be used up.
something will have to be added again.
in theory i prefer organic but i also dont want to have to spend so much time amending soil that my collection becomes a burden to maintain.
the easier to maintain the more species i can collect.
im not lazy i just ....actually yes i am.

[Mackel in DFW]

Eventually Used Up?

The organic method is no till, add compost to top. The worms and other organisms work it down into the soil. I am really looking for a pro or con argument. C'mon everybody, there's got to be a substantive argument without the red herrings, maybe not.

Mr. Dudley- please don't misinterpret a passionate plea for rudeness, on line discussions are somewhat limited because you never know initially if someone is posting just to be a troublemaker, I certainly am not. I am a


SCIENTIST AT HEART

and a

LOVER OF ALL LIVING THINGS

and a

RIGHT WING LUNATIC CHRISTIAN

and an

HONEST, SINCERE, CARING HUMAN BEING

[JCPenney]

Getting back to the first post and "avoiding high nitrogen fertilizer": I was wondering about a fertilizer low in nitrogen and high in P and K. At least for new plantings, like ours.

I did use MiracleGrow 15-30-15 yesterday to stimulate root growth. I also watered in some mycorrhiza a week ago to stimulate root growth.

Whadda you think?

Our boo supplier advised lawn fertilizer in winter and early spring, that will be absorbed by the plant and ready for late spring/summer growth spurt(s). I did not ask what blend of N-P-K is best. I have seen 21-7-14; 6-20-20 (for seed and sod plantings to support root growth) and 15-15-15. Whadda you think?

Any truth to the axiom about bamboo: First year it sleeps; second year it creeps and third year it leaps.

[Wills]

Mackel,

I live in central Florida.......and this area is basically a sandbar. I have been adding organics to the acres of "soil" since we retired here and the veggie garden and bunny garden are just now shaping up. I can't tell you the number of truck loads of tree trimming chips the tree people have dropped off but it would be 50+. Also have many rabbits and that manure gets spread around. I am all for the organic approach but the fact remains that if you add chemical fertilizer to the boos growing in that very wonderful soil you described the boo will grow faster and bigger sooner and that is reason enough for me to do it when the bamboo is still in the upsizing phase of it's life.

[Joseph Clemens]

Eventually Used Up?

The organic method is no till, add compost to top. The worms and other organisms work it down into the soil. I am really looking for a pro or con argument. C'mon everybody, there's got to be a substantive argument without the red herrings, maybe not.

You can't really "till" bamboo without potentially damaging the plant's underground rhizome system. So whatever fertilizer you use, organic, synthetic, or combinations, you must rely on nature (soil organisms and/or weather) to transport the nutrients to the plant's root hairs, where the plant can then assimilate them. Yes, "used up", a better term might be mineralization, which is what happens as the organic matter (residue of dead plants and animals) that exists, to a varying degree in all soils, decomposes, releasing its minerals into the soil solution, where they can be transported so the plants can the utilize them. At this stage the component nutrients are virtually the same, regardless of their origins. And as the organic residue decomposes and is mineralized it will need to be replaced with other organic residue/compost with high nutrient values, mineralization/organic decomposition releases some Nitrogen as gaseous N2 and so not all the Nitrogen comprising the organic residue it made available to the soil solution and subsequently to the plants - it is lost (another way it is, "used up").

I raise several species of non-native earthworms, in my bamboo groves, for personal use as fishing bait. So I try to be careful not to apply synthetic fertilizers in a way that they might harm my worms. So far, I have been successful and my worm populations have remained quite healthy.

I would like to use more nutrient rich organic ingredients, such as blood meal and kitchen waste, but I have nearly filled my acre with bamboo plantings and it would take a very large amount of compost/compostable residue to supply my acre - I cannot afford the $$ or the time necessary to accomplish that task. I do dispose of my own meager kitchen scraps in my bamboo groves, moving the location periodically. What is available to me are used straw horse bedding and horse manure (many of my neighbors keep horses), which I use to top dress my groves, yearly. Unfortunately these are quite Nitrogen poor and Carbon rich, so they make good mulch, but are a poor source of Nitrogen, though they provide several other essential nutrients, such as Sulfur and Silica.

So, basically I use as much organic residue/compost as is readily available to me, but I supplement the soil solution with some synthetic fertilizers to help keep my plants nutrition balanced.

[ghmerrill]

one of the reasons why we have so little of tha American Bamboo left, is that the early farmers would tear it out becuse of the quality of the soil it was growing in. Any one who has dug in an old bamboo grove can tell you that you wont find richer, loamier soil than in that situation. Even with that rich, dark loam, there is a finite amount of nutrients- much of the nitrogen gets used in the decomposition process. By adding a nitrogen source, you are allowing for more growth due to the avilability of the nutrients.

[bambootony]

eventually the nutrients in your custom soil will be used up.
something will have to be added again.
in theory i prefer organic but i also dont want to have to spend so much time amending soil that my collection becomes a burden to maintain.
the easier to maintain the more species i can collect.
im not lazy i just ....actually yes i am.

I have to agree here with dudley!!!
I have a GIANT Maple tree in my side yard.
The tree has taken up so much of the soil nutrients that the roots are exposed
and the ground is 1-2 inches lower that the rest of the yard.
Now that I have my chipper-shreder I plan to pile any un-used part of my chipping process into this area and mix in some fertilizer and dirt from some high spots in the yard.
This is where I plan to plant some of the small Bamboo that I get from Needmore so the tree can provide partial shade for the hot summer days here in Illinois.
From Bamboo Tony

[dudley]

Mackel in dfw,
i dont find anything at all rude in your post.
I understand your point completely.
i used to raise worms to compost our kitchen waste.
eventually i became dissatisfied and released the worms to enrich my bamboo. i believe the moles ate most of them. either way the organics
never did break down into my soil at a rate that satisfied me. adding more organics just formed a thicker and thicker layer which eventually i had to rake out or risk burying my boo. digging down in the soil just a couple inches revealed the same plain white sand i started with.

on a side note all worms in the northern u.s. and most in the south are non-native species.in the north they have totally changed the landscape as far as which plants grow & where to a large degree. In my yard they seem to be lazy and dont do much at all.(except feed moles)(on rainy days they crawl out onto the sidewalk and fascinate my dogs)i still encourage the population of worms i just dont count on them.