great photos of bamboo and companion plants

[Roy]

Roy, I initially misread your response, so you have heard others describe the thin black layer on the culms only, also as a form of sooty mold? With the same ant/aphid relational cause?

Sooty is by far the best way to describe what I see, but it looks nothing like pictures of sooty mold and I have never noticed ants or aphids hanging out or just passing through, on all of my culms.

Brad,

I think the black film you are describing is primarily on temperate bamboos. As you have said, the film is on the culms and not at the branch complement, as I have described it.

Also, forget the ants and their farming techniques with aphids. What my ants are after in the branch complement of the tropical bamboos is the sweet white substance secreted by the mealy bug.

Picture 1 shows the ants at the branch complement. They are after the sweet white substance under the black sooty mold. No farm boys in these ants. Pure hunter-gatherers.

Picture 2 shows the black sooty mold removed and thus showing the sweet white mealy bug excrement. The mealy bug sucks on the bamboo, then excretes the white substance. Mold in the air collects on the white substance and grow into black sooty mold.

Picture 3 shows several mealy bugs (somewhat burnt orange in color) beneath a culm sheath. Note the white substance in the lower right hand corner of the picture (yellow arrow)

Picture 4 shows a mealy bug "Up Close & Personal"


Picture 1 Black Sooty Mold and Ants




Picture 2 White substance under black sooty mold




Picture 3 Mealy bugs under a culm sheath




Picture 4 Mealy bug extreme: Up close and personal.

[tstoehr]

The photos at kimmei.com show exactly the kind of plantings that made me want to grow bamboo myself. The open grove of individual tall, thick culms is the effect I'm looking for. So many plantings result in a dense, impenetrable thicket of unmanagable culms, branches and leaves. Not very attractive in my opinion.
I've read that keeping a reduced number of well-spaced culms will actually result in thicker new culms from year to year. I'm guessing that every year I'll be removing as many older culms as new culms that are allowed to mature. Most new culms will be removed prematurely, hopefully consumed in a stir-fry.
One thing I worry about is that by removing so many culms at very early stages, while just a few inches high, I will be encouraging the formation of lots of new ones, thereby weakening the plant as a whole. Although I have read that in not the case, as long as enough new, healthy culms are allowed to replace the older culms.

[Steve in France]

Great pics Roy, picture worth a thousand works and all that

Tim, I did start to talk to Jos about the process of getting a large groves of timber sized Bamboos when I was there last time.One of the first things he said was don't cut culms for the first three years. You need to build up a big mass of root/rhizome network, before you start to play with the grove.I did break this rule with my Shanghai 3, but I did it for the right reasons, my Shanghai 3 put up three new culms last Spring, this was from a single 5 foot culm division planted the year before. At the point when the new culms were just leafing out I noticed the original culm was blowing around in the wind and damaging the soft new growth, plus the old culm was at the center of the three new culms and was going to shade a large part of the new growths lower branches and leaves. I decided to cut it out and did so, the result was three very good culms , tallest 10 feet and one inch thick.
Now the normal way of looking at growth for Northern Europe is "Every Leaf Counts" so don't trim branches to expose culm because you think the plant will look better and don't trim out culms for the first few years and don't remove more than a third of the old culms at a time and don't remove old culms until after the new growth has finished leafing out, Do remove culms before the late Summer rhizome and culm storage of energy starts again.
Now because I live just North of Paris I have a warmer sunnier climate with in general a milder Winter than Jos gets, this means I can get away with a little more experimenting without loss of growth ( I Hope ) , last year my Bamboos were shooting 3 to 4 weeks before Markj's in the UK plus I get more weeks of Fall rhizome growth.This should be the same for you in Oregon, in fact you should get much more Summer warmth than we do so even more growth.You will only get max growth with a constant supply of water and rich mulch, without the constant supply of water and mulch you will wait a very long time for the big culms to appear.The effect of water and mulch will not give you a 100 % better growth it will give you a few 100 % better growth.
But I'd still not trim more than a third of old grow and then only after two or three years in the ground, having said that you can play it the best way for your conditions, I hope this provides a few guide lines.This is the little I now about zone 8 growing and would not apply to colder zones I would think.
Feel free to tell me I'm Full of Bull
Later
Steve

[needmore]

So Roy, your understanding is that sooty mold doesn't need the aphid/ant interaction at all to become established, rather it is just easier to see it as it builds up on the insect secretions. Therefore, I do have sooty mold here after all? This makes sense and as I said, sooty is the best way to describe this, just like the film on the front/interior of our store in Honolulu from the bus exhaust as they pull off.

[Roy]

So Roy, your understanding is that sooty mold doesn't need the aphid/ant interaction at all to become established, rather it is just easier to see it as it builds up on the insect secretions. Therefore, I do have sooty mold here after all? This makes sense and as I said, sooty is the best way to describe this, just like the film on the front/interior of our store in Honolulu from the bus exhaust as they pull off.

Brad,

I don't know what people have on their temperate bamboos. Only that I've seen posts where people talk about having a black film on their temperate bamboos which they call black sooty. Black sooty mold in my area occurs on tropical bamboos at the branch complement by the mealy bug's excretions and mold in the air.

I got the following off of the Encarta website (Ants and Aphids):

Honeypot ants tend their aphids and periodically ?milk? them for their honeydew secretions by stroking the aphids gently with their antennae. Ants will aggressively protect their aphids and may even move them when they are in danger, transferring them into temporary shelters or new nests. Some ant species also move their aphids into underground burrows during the winter months.

[needmore]

Roy, now I'm REALLY confused about the soot. I just got back home today from an 11 day work session in Honolulu and I always check out the greenhouse when I get back. It is unheated and the temp has been pretty bloody cold here, dropping into the low 20's at night. There is extreme humidity in there, in fact it rains indoors when the sun is out.

Despite the cold temps in there, I noticed an increase in the sooty stuff AND a plant I'm holding for webmaster B actually has the black gunk at the branch compliment, just like in your pics. I am certain it was not there when I dug the plant about 3-4 weeks ago. I can't imagine that there are ants or aphids moving around now but the black, gack sure is.

[Roy]

Roy, now I'm REALLY confused about the soot. I just got back home today from an 11 day work session in Honolulu and I always check out the greenhouse when I get back. It is unheated and the temp has been pretty bloody cold here, dropping into the low 20's at night. There is extreme humidity in there, in fact it rains indoors when the sun is out.

Despite the cold temps in there, I noticed an increase in the sooty stuff AND a plant I'm holding for webmaster B actually has the black gunk at the branch compliment, just like in your pics. I am certain it was not there when I dug the plant about 3-4 weeks ago. I can't imagine that there are ants or aphids moving around now but the black, gack sure is.

Brad,

The mealy bugs are in the soil, on the rhizomes, under the culm sheaths, and etc. They seem to be everywhere. The ants are not moving the mealy bugs. The ants are after the sweet white excrement of the mealy bugs. I don't know the exact locomotion of the mealy bugs, but I do know they are on the rhizome underground. See my photo below of a mealy bug on an aborted B. textilis rhizome which I dug out. [Remember now, my statements are referring to tropical bamboos] (2 red arrows point to white excrement and 1 red arrow pointing to a mealy bug)

[Thuja]

Steve, nice write up on the grove pruning process. The Arctic version of your method is a bit more extreme (dead to the ground every winter) but we can keep hoping. This might be the 1st winter I get thru with some live culms. Yee ha!

[Thuja]

Last year I bought some Bambusa cultivars that had mealy bugs. I sprayed the plants with oil several times on a weekly interval and got rid of them. They have not shown up since. I believe they go thru a "crawling" stage where they are on the move. My mealies must have all been on the branches when I sprayed because I was able to terminate them. I was sure glad to get rid of the unsightly black mess because it really made B. multiplex look shabby.

[needmore]

I'm just very surprised that the soot condition can expand in subfreezing temps, whatever the cause. If this were July, I'd expect it but in an environment that has dipped below freezing most nights recently is quite surprising.

[Roy]

I'm just very surprised that the soot condition can expand in subfreezing temps, whatever the cause. If this were July, I'd expect it but in an environment that has dipped below freezing most nights recently is quite surprising.

Brad,

That suprises me also, but I've had no experience working with any bamboo at those temperatures.

I'm just concerned that for the next 2 nights we may get down near the freezing mark. If we are going to get below freezing, then I've got a lot of work to do: putting potted plants on the ground and then covering them with a tarp and etc.

[Bamboo Outlaw]

Roy,
I see sooty mold on the culms of S. fastuosa here. Don't see the ants or mealies, but sooty all the same. It covers the entire culm in some cases and makes it look black. To me it is the same mold we see on the clumpers. I do not know why it grows on the fastuosa over other runners here. Not all get it, but some in the shade are bad.

[Mike,Marietta,SC,z8a]

One reason that Jos' Phyllostachys look so neat and compact is because Phyllostachys spread very slowly in the cool-summer northern European climate (especially when compared the rapid spread of Phyllostachys growing in the Southeastern US). The first time I saw a Phyllostachys aurea growing in Ireland, at first I didn't recognize it because it had a tight, almost clumper-like aspect and culm spacing.

I do selective pruning of the new shoots coming up in my moso groves, removing the smallest diameter shoots, those coming up too close to existing culms or shoots, and those coming up where they are not wanted. I try to maintain a 3 to 4 foot spacing between the individual culms in the grove. This makes it easier to walk throughthe grove and makes it easier to establish and grow other plants within the grove.

One way to help reduce the populations of mealy bugs and scale is to prune out any culms over 3 or 4 years old. The populations of these insects build up in older culms and the "twiggier" older culms also provide more habitat for the insects. Also keeping the culms thinned out to provide a 2 to 3 foot spacing between the culms creates a thinner, less intertwined canopy, making it harder for the crawler stage of these pests to move from one culm to another.

[Roy]

<snip>
One way to help reduce the populations of mealy bugs and scale is to prune out any culms over 3 or 4 years old. The populations of these insects build up in older culms and the "twiggier" older culms also provide more habitat for the insects. Also keeping the culms thinned out to provide a 2 to 3 foot spacing between the culms creates a thinner, less intertwined canopy, making it harder for the crawler stage of these pests to move from one culm to another.

Mike,

Speaking of the crawler stage of the mealy bug, do you know the various growth stages of the mealybug? I've seen them and photographed them for years in my tropicals (in the branch complements, under culm sheaths, on the rhizomes underground) but all I seem to ever be able to see is one stage:

[tstoehr]

Steve, thanks for the words. The first bamboo I've had to thin out is a Ph. Nigra Bory, which was planted from a 5-gallon container during the summer of 2004. In 2005 I took out about 7 culms because they were just too close together, I mean like right next to each other. The diameter was twice that of the previous year's culms. I have to believe the plant is better off with this thinning. There were still 14 excellent culms remaining. Keep in mind this thing is growing and spreading like mad.
And yes, I do water all summer long, which I'm convinced is why my Bory, Henon and Dulcis are growing so fast. As far as mulching, I just keep the ground covered which a couple inches of whatever I have available, leaves, grass, hedge-clippings and the like. And I use a bit of fertilizer a couple times during the growing season. I'm very excited about this year's shooting.