Woot! Ch. Tumidinoda seeds sprouting

[JohnC]

Got in a batch of freshly collected tumidinoda seeds, they had molded / fungused in the plastic baggie they were sent in so I put them in in a glass with No Damp anti fungal solution and forgot about them for two days and went to plant them today and they're sprouting big time.

Freshness of the seeds seems to really be ultra important. I tried these same seeds 6 months after they were collected last year and got nothing.

I'm planting half outside and half inside and crossing my fingers.

[ghmerrill]

Hope they do well for you John! tumi has to be one of my all time favorites... as opposed to all other boos, which are simply my favorites....



I got mine in a trade last Oct, and it was two skinny sections of rhizome with one 2'culm on one, 2 culms same size on the other. it has not done much height wise this spring, gained about 6" or so from the biggest shoot, but it has 12 shoots right now, and checking tonight, under the mulch, the tips of the runners are between 3'-4' away from the culms... I am wondering how quickly a grove of this stuff establishes! mine gets early am sun, shade under a large pine (acid soil too) untill late evening, then is in sun again. VERY pretty plant, if you get all of them to grow, you wont have ANY problem trading them off!

[JohnC]

Hope they do well for you John! tumi has to be one of my all time favorites... as opposed to all other boos, which are simply my favorites....

Thanks! I'm really looking forward to them. They'll be a real stand out from all the other bamboos we have.

It's my first experiment with planting seeds directly outside as well, hope that works out because I've been growing bamboo from seeds for over a year now and learned a lot in the process of killing nearly every one I ever started.

At this point I think I've learned every lesson to be had about growing from seed but if the outside ones work out that eliminates about 3/4 of the potential problems.

[ghmerrill]

better than my experiance! the only seeds I have tried were from my fargesia nitada, and I got a 0% germination rate......

[svendrix]

Just a note on bamboo seeds. I am noticing a QUICK dropoff in germination the older the seeds get. When I got some F. nitida seeds from an ABS auction last July, they had very good germination through November 2007. Now they don't germinate at all (out of the last two tries in as many months). Same with Moso, and Ph. heteroclada. I originally tried to do the bambooseeds.org project that I mentioned in another thread (try to track flowering, and dissemination of seeds), but I am starting to think that my gut reaction of having the ABS handle it is the best way to go. Like Bill mentioned, the European version of the bamboo society actually created a "Seed Officer" last/this year.

I think getting any bamboo seed disseminated while still fresh is the only method that works with the customer being happy with their purchase... =D

Too bad the USDA has those import restrictions on bamboo seeds (not just the plants), as even with a year in quarantine, they will be mostly worthless (if my non-scientific method of observation holds true), by the time anyone gets a hold of it here in the US.

Bill, have you heard any further if the ABS is thinking about having a "Seed Officer"? I'd love for that to become a reality and would be willing to share my ideas/observations on the system I was thinking of, with whoever that would be... =D

---Sven

[JohnC]

Just a note on bamboo seeds. I am noticing a QUICK dropoff in germination the older the seeds get. When I got some F. nitida seeds from an ABS auction last July, they had very good germination through November 2007. Now they don't germinate at all (out of the last two tries in as many months).

Too bad the USDA has those import restrictions on bamboo seeds (not just the plants), as even with a year in quarantine, they will be mostly worthless (if my non-scientific method of observation holds true), by the time anyone gets a hold of it here in the US.


---Sven

Yup, exactly my experience as well. Luckily the Canadian government has no problem with bamboo seeds as they are not competing with any important agricultural crops (which is all they seem to care about).

Now I just email the lady in Germany and find out what she has fresh. She says the bulk are in May-June but that the Mosos come in October.

She has indicated to me that it varies by species, some apparently germinate well beyond a year but they're likely tropical ones as that's the bulk of what she sells.

There's a chinese site that is a bamboo nursery and they are the likely ultimate supplier of the seeds to the German place. I tried emailing them a couple of times but got no response.

[ghmerrill]

what is interesting to me, on this whole seed thing, is that if many boos flower in decades long cyles, how the heck are they getting a constant supply of seed? using the Tumi for an example, I have not heard of anyone saying its flowering for them, so if it is flowering in its native habitat, that means ours is a ticking timebomb, right? same with the others species. very confusing.....



its like many of the ebay sellers... are you REALLY getting what you are paying for, many people will spent the couple dolllars, and if nothing sprouts, they shrug it off.... even if you get some seedlings..... wont it be close to a decade before you can make a positive ID on the plant?

OK, someone help a seed sprouting challeged guy here!

[JohnC]

what is interesting to me, on this whole seed thing, is that if many boos flower in decades long cyles, how the heck are they getting a constant supply of seed? its like many of the ebay sellers... are you REALLY getting what you are paying for, many people will spent the couple dolllars, and if nothing sprouts, they shrug it off.... even if you get some seedlings..... wont it be close to a decade before you can make a positive ID on the plant?

OK, someone help a seed sprouting challeged guy here!

Well purportedly they are inducing seeding which is my guess for a lot of them, however it's possible that we are used to clones here in North America and of course they flower around the same time but if you take a wild population there would likely be some variation in flowering times in many species.

As far as the specifics of the ID on the seeds, the Tumidinoda seeds are *very* distinctive as are all of them in their own way. I've yet to see any two seeds that are confusable with each other. So at least I know I'm getting *different* seeds and I have no reason to doubt the supplier.

Also the seedlings are pretty distinctive, there's no mistaking a Moso seedling or others, they don't look identical though some are close. In the end what are we comparing them to anyway? Some clone that we in the west think *is* that variety of bamboo when in fact it's probably an unusual member of that type chosen in the first place for it's distinctiveness.

Bamboo seeds are relatively cheap and once you work it all out easy enough to grow and the most exciting prospect is that I see a lot of variation even as seedlings.

Bamboo is especially known for having heterogenous seedlings with great variation so you never know what you're going to discover. I had a H. Falconeri seedling that was nicely variegated in a batch of about 25 seedlings. Also some strange ones with pronounced crookedness etc. Unfortunately I killed most of them by putting them out too early in the year. Live an learn.

But in terms of the ID issue, most of all I don't care. I'm growing them for fun and to see what I get and what can survive here and I like bamboo enough not to look down my nose at any unique specimen, I'll leave it to the serious collectors to wring their hands over that particular issue.

[foxd]

what is interesting to me, on this whole seed thing, is that if many boos flower in decades long cyles, how the heck are they getting a constant supply of seed?

I asked that very same question about MOSO seed. The answer I got was "China is a big country, there is always MOSO in flower somewhere in China." Since then I have found examples of other bamboo flowering in one country, but not in others. I guess since most of the bamboo in this country is a clone off one imported plant it is likely to flower all about the same time.

using the Tumi for an example, I have not heard of anyone saying its flowering for them, so if it is flowering in its native habitat, that means ours is a ticking timebomb, right? same with the others species. very confusing.....

When you get down to it, most of our bamboo is a ticking time bomb that is going to flower sooner or later.

its like many of the ebay sellers... are you REALLY getting what you are paying for, many people will spent the couple dolllars, and if nothing sprouts, they shrug it off.... even if you get some seedlings..... wont it be close to a decade before you can make a positive ID on the plant?

The seeds I've seen are pretty distinctive, it would seem possible to ID the bamboo from the seed. Seedlings also have distinctive characteristics. A MOSO seedling looks different than a heteroclada seedling.

I think the main stumbling block to IDing is that bamboo seedlings are rare enough that we don't have experience IDing them.

Then again, I would trust bamboo seeds off of ebay.

[Roy]

what is interesting to me, on this whole seed thing, is that if many boos flower in decades long cyles, how the heck are they getting a constant supply of seed?

I asked that very same question about MOSO seed. The answer I got was "China is a big country, there is always MOSO in flower somewhere in China." Since then I have found examples of other bamboo flowering in one country, but not in others. I guess since most of the bamboo in this country is a clone off one imported plant it is likely to flower all about the same time.

Bamboo flowering is something that is difficult to get a handle on. Several people have had B.m. 'A. Karr' flower in the last couple of years. Some people have told me that my smoke and fire experiment didn't cause my A. Karr to flower, but that it was just time for it to flower as others were flowering. My neighbor has a nice clump he took as a division off of my A. Karr and it hasn't flowered yet. So what's the real story?

using the Tumi for an example, I have not heard of anyone saying its flowering for them, so if it is flowering in its native habitat, that means ours is a ticking timebomb, right? same with the others species. very confusing.....

When you get down to it, most of our bamboo is a ticking time bomb that is going to flower sooner or later.

My understanding is that B. oldhamii has been in cultivation for 200 years or better and it has never been known to flower. I think there are a few more like this one.

its like many of the ebay sellers... are you REALLY getting what you are paying for, many people will spent the couple dolllars, and if nothing sprouts, they shrug it off.... even if you get some seedlings..... wont it be close to a decade before you can make a positive ID on the plant?

The seeds I've seen are pretty distinctive, it would seem possible to ID the bamboo from the seed. Seedlings also have distinctive characteristics. A MOSO seedling looks different than a heteroclada seedling.

I think the main stumbling block to IDing is that bamboo seedlings are rare enough that we don't have experience IDing them.

Then again, I would trust bamboo seeds off of ebay.

I thought for sure you would put a after that statement.

[JohnC]

Some people have told me that my smoke and fire experiment didn't cause my A. Karr to flower, but that it was just time for it to flower as others were flowering.

That would be great if it were true because ever since I read what you wrote about your bamboo flowering with the nearby fire we've been a little freaked out because we've planted a lot of our bamboo on the back of our property which is treed and we used to regularly cut up the deadfalls and branches and burn them back there.

[ghmerrill]

you are right Roy, this whole flowering thing is crazy... my nitada is an old generation clone, from a friend. I got two plants, one which flowered the next spring, the other, nothing, and growing like crazy... his have never flowered either. I took several divisions off my Pl. fortunei, and gave them to friends, and have heard nothing of flowering on them, yet right after I dug the patch up and moved most of it, and potted up the rest, ALL are flowering, including some rhizome sections that put up wimpy little "flower shoots" instead of regular shoots.... strange!

I do see the point of all of the cultivated plants being one clone, and that causing the mass flowering events that we all hear of, that makes sense from the standpoint that all the imports are so regulated, and it is so expensive to bring a plant in, that very few get brought in... after all, who is going to travel all over a country, and collect examples of a species from each locale, then import the batch, when, if you are looking at it from a collection standpoint, one location will get you what you need.

I guess what causes the most fear, is when a cultivar/varient of the species flowers, as the seedlings will predominantly revert to the type form, which not only means you loose your beautifull, large plant, but you may have nothing to replace it with- the stories of when P.b. Castillon flowered bring this to mind.

so why do most of us fear a flowering event? is it from the standpoint of loosing our large plants, and having that bare spot in the landscape, or because we may not get the same plant out of the seedlings, if it is a cutivar that is flowering? I know for me, being seed-inept, I do not like the idea of loosing a plant that I have grown out, and having that bare space where it was- it will take years for another to grow in!

[Roy]

ghmerrill,

A lot has to do with how old you are. I've heard it takes around 10 to 12 years for a seedling to reach full maturity and at 63.5 (when you are young and when you are old one counts the .5's as a sign of accomplishment) that would put me near 75 years old from seed to full maturity.

[ghmerrill]

yes, but Roy, they say time passes faster as you get older, so, adjusting for relativity, you would seem to get the mature plant faster than I!

heck, 75 is just about retirement age anyway, so you got a few years to go after that.......maybe with a few spare parts holding you togeather, but at least you will be around!

[Roy]

yes, but Roy, they say time passes faster as you get older, so, adjusting for relativity, you would seem to get the mature plant faster than I!

heck, 75 is just about retirement age anyway, so you got a few years to go after that.......maybe with a few spare parts holding you togeather, but at least you will be around!

I feel like the supersonic transport (SST) Concorde. Times flies really fast now. When I was a young kid, in the first few grades of elementary school, I used to think we would go to school for a year and then be off a year. The Summers felt like they lasted a full year.

75 was way too long for me to wait to retire. I retired at 62 and I wished I had of done it a few years sooner. I haven't retired from life, but I have retired from those 10 hours days being at someone else's beck and call. I'm my own boss now. Well, at least until my wife gets home from work or my son gets home from school.