moso seedlings leaves yellowing

[Boukou]

I need the help of someone your expertise on my moso seedlings that keep getting progressively yellow leaves and die. If from your experience you have any advice to give me i will gladly appreciate it. I had 16 plants a month ago and now i am only left with 3, that are 3-4 months old now. The last month or more they have stoped growing completely and the yellowing on their leaves keeps growing, leaving them dead.

I have repotted them in bigger pots (5 liter/1 gal) with fresh soil at 6-6.5 ph. The soil does not get dampy but I can see that it holds much water just like wool cotton does. I havent watered them a month now and it doesnt seem to help, the soil is somewhat dry on the outside but if you dig 5 centimeters you can see it is moist inside. I give them distilled water and the last time i added iron fertilizer in order to undo the yellowing but it didnt help much.

I keep the plants under artificial light. At first i had them under 2 flc bulbs 6400k and 5000k at 2500 lumen, then i got up to 5 bulbs 3x6400k 1x5000k and 1x2700k (6000 lumen) but it did more bad than it did good. When i got down to 3 bulbs 1x6400 1x2700 and 1x5000 the yellowing slowed by much, but that could easily because of some other reason, for example the soil drainage. Two days ago i reduced the lighting by removing the 6400 bulb leaving only the 5000k and 2700k on. Getting the plants sun light is impossible because my cat will have a feast off them and its too cold to put them outside yet, although after i put them in the sun behind a curtain in my room i noticed that after a few hours of sun the yellowing got worse.
Today i sprayed the leaves with a water soluble fertilizer containing magnesium and other elements after i read you guys suggesting that to an old post.

Here are the 3 plants in photos. Notice the one has made a new shoot which was made after i put the 3 light bulbs on.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/suuw6mw64ua2f ... 1.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/szpzbrd8y7y99 ... 0.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4w3cux8g5q48x ... 4.jpg?dl=0

Do you have any idea what is causing all this? And more importandly, do you think there is hope for them or are they already dead? I wouldnt want to bother you but im so frustrated because they keep dying, i had almost given up on them untill i saw the new shoot. I have to mention that i dont know much about bamboo or growing plants and everything i do is from information gathered from the internet

Thank you for your time

[johnw]

Looking at the first picture I would say the problem is your soil mix. Is that coconut fibre (coir)? If so it could be salty. It also looks too dense and I'd suggest a mix that has more air in it, at least a reliable commercial mix that grower's use. Might be good to ask a local greenhouse what they use. Others might have some suggestions.

[oobmab]

I would be wary of just using distilled water. I realize there is disagreement whether distilled water is good for plants, or not, but it does strip out minerals from the human body, and probably soil as well.

You might find this interesting (starts halfway down left column):

https://books.google.com/books?id=Vp1AA ... ul&f=false

[T9D]

I'd never use distilled water either, very acidic and no nutrients. Do you have a fish and fish tank water? That stuff is incredible for plants.

The soil didn't have fertilizer already in it did it? It almost looks like it could be getting fert burned too. But on the other spectrum if there is little nutrients or fert in the soil, combined with distilled water then it's not getting enough nutrients. I couldn't figure out why my bamboo was so yellow and then I added some water/urine mix and it turned super green and grew like crazy in about half a week. Then added some compost and it kept growing like crazy.

Bamboo seems to love water, as long as it drains you can water a few times a week. But it has to drain well. I used way to much compost before on some plants and it held water so badly it was just mush all the time. Had a bad effect on the plants. A month seems way way to long to not water. Especially if it doesn't like something in the soil, then it's not diluting that enough and making things worse. But anyway those teeny tiny roots can barely pull in moisture, and they may feel moist but it could have already sucked the moisture from the soil directly around the tiny area of roots and the rest of the soil still feels wet because there are no roots there.

I don't know I'm just speculating and thinking out loud, I'm not a pro, but I try different things and have some experience with years of casual gardening. So take it for what you will. One thing is for sure you can't leave it the way it is and are going to have to keep trying something so I guess I gave you a few ideas.

[Tarzanus]

I think most possible reason is water. That kind of soil (well it's not soil actually) sucks enormous amounts of water and it doesn't allow it to drain out, instead it locks it inside like a sponge. When plant has roots that are well established, there are usually no issues, with younger plants that only have small fragile root system, roots can start rotting and plant starts fading. Problem can occur even with well established plant when weather gets colder, which makes the bamboo use a lot less water than usually. Same can happen in prolonged periods of constant rain which happened to my Moso seedlings.

Only mist that soil from time to time and keep it only lightly moist or, much better option, change the soil. I make my soil using garden soil (way too much clay in it), 2 years old compost, tree bark or 1 year old decomposing crushed branches, sand to break down the clay and some peat moss. If you add too much organic matter, it will hold too much water and eventually suffocate the plant.

My observation is, Moso hates waterlogged conditions. All bamboos I tried offered at least a chance to improve it's condition, with Moso, it usually goes downhill.

Your seedling does show some improvement. On the last picture it's evident that green color started to return. Hopefully it will bounce back. Don't care for it too much. If you won't transplant it (I would advise smaller pots!), keep your watering minimal and only make sure soil is just a bit moist and not soaked. I usually just spray the soil when it gets dry on top with some water.

I hope the remaining seedlings survive. Good luck!

[Boukou]

Very interesting information guys. Having all this in mind, first thing in the morning i am going to make a new soil mix. I chose this one because i figured the Ph was what the bamboos would want since it is acidic. I had to change the old one because it was pure clay (i want to believe) and when it used to dry it made cracks and was becoming very thick which i believe was what started all this mess. So i'm going to mix the new soil with the old one and also add some sand to improve the drainage. I use these very small white rocks at the bottom of the pot since i figured it would help with the drainage but when the soil is like a sponge it doesn't matter because it will hold the water no matter what.
Regarding the water, tap water where i live is slightly basic with ph ranging from 7.5 to 8 so i figured i shouldn't be using it since bamboos like acidic soil. Maybe i should get bottled water for them after all.

[Tarzanus]

They shouldn't suffer from carbonates in your water, I 'm sure there's need to buy bottled water. If you are afraid that your water is too alkaline, add teaspoon of vinegar into 1l of water. That will slightly increase acidity and it won't harm the plant.

[johnw]

Rocks and/or shards in the bottom of pots actually impede drainage, this is myth has been around for ages and still persists.

A slightly taller pot will improve drainage if your mix is a good one. What about some pumice or perlite in your mix?

[stevelau1911]

Something like Pro-mix should be effective, but something cheaper which I've found works on basically all kinds of plants is straight black compost. Yes I've used it effectively on moso seedlings, and I am very experienced with this kind of plant.

Also you do need strong light, and be careful about how much you water since many people tend to over-water. 400 watt metal halide or stronger should be good enough.

http://www.bamboocraft.net/forums/showt ... o+seedling

[Boukou]

I had some bad luck with the sand unfortunately the one i bought was very thin and didnt help with the drainage, in fact it made it worse. luckily i expiremented on an empty pot and didnt do any harm to the plants. I added some more pumice on the soil, i have tons of that stuff but i wanted to ask you another question.
When i changed the soil i noticed the plants are stuck in a ball of soil from the one they had since when they were little, some roots came out of course but mostly they were in there. Should i try to break the soil ball that is very think and possibly harm the roots a little or let them be? Its very thick and you can easily hold them in your hand without breaking it and perhaps they are suffocating the plants

[johnw]

Maybe a very gentle stream of water to expose the root ends so they can extend out into a better soil. If the old hard rootball disintegrates on you then pot up straight away and put the plant in a clear plastic bag in bright light but no direct sunlight until it gets established.

Personally I would go for as grower's mix. Yes it is more expensive so why pay extra? Because growers want consistent results and you will not get that with cheapo brands. In the hort business I've seen countless growers switch to a cheap brand, they brag about the results the first year (sometimes!) and then lose thousands of dollars worth of seed the next year in the same mix that has pH and salt readings all over the map.

+6c & drizzle

[Arkansas]

Not relevant to your young plants, but i have approx 3 and 4 year old knee-high to shoulder high moso every 10 foot or so, spaced around the border of a 3 acre wooded area. They were started from seed. It's been a milder than usual winter, but we did have a cold snap into single digits. What really surprises me, is the differing apparent cold hardiness from plant to plant, irrespective of overhead tree shelter. There are of course, dozens of these plants for a broad sampling. Sometimes one will show zero leaf burn, pretty green as can be, and 30 feet away I'll have one that 100% of the leaves and canes will be blond and look dead as can be. They wiil come back in the Spring, and some plants are just partially dead leaves with some green. Probably 3/4 of them have some leaf burn.

I'm not educated in plants like some here are, that may be know? I often wonder, if maybe there are different strains of moso, with some being much more cold tolerant than others? That's the only explanation i can think of.

[foxd]

Yes, there is some variation in the hardiness of various strains of Moso. For instance the Anderson Clone is regarded as more cold hardy than other strains.