Heavy poor draining clay

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bamboo_bob
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Heavy poor draining clay

Post by bamboo_bob »

I'm planning on putting a privacy screen in between my house and the next. Problem is the soil is a very heavy clay and the spot doesn't get a whole lot of light (about 4 hours a day right now, but that will go up to about 8 hours a day come summer when the sun is over head). Based on the conditions, and the fact that I want a fast, high screen, I was thinking of putting Red Margin in there. I've read bamboo doesn't tolerate poor draining soil. It rained here about 72 hours ago and that soil is still wet. If I dig out a rock about 8 inches down, I can even see a little bit of standing water in there. I think this classifies as poor draining. So the action I've been taking so far is to dig a 6 inch deep trench along the border which will serve as a means of controlling the growth (root pruning) as well as to transport surface water out of the bed and down the hill (this spot sits on a grade of about 2-3%, so the water *will* drain eventually). Also, I have tilled 5 bails of straw into the 75'x7' patch of land I'm going to plant on to try and increase voiding in the soil and enhance draining.

Does anybody have experience conditioning this type of soil for bamboo growth? I can also buy composted horse manure or top soil. I was thinking I could possibly dig out holes to fill with better quality soil to plant the bamboo in and then hopefully over time as the straw decays, the rest of the soil will become more habitable. Either that, or I can just pile top soil in mounds on top of the clay/straw mess and plant the bamboo in that.
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needmore
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Re: Heavy poor draining clay

Post by needmore »

Greetings, how about raised beds or mounds above the wet muck?
Brad Salmon, zone 12B Kea'au, HI
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bamboo_bob
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Re: Heavy poor draining clay

Post by bamboo_bob »

The area I'm looking to cover is 75x7 feet. I assume the bed should be 6 inches high? This means I would need roughly 10 cubic yards of topsoil to make the bed. At $38 a yard plus the delivery fee, I'm looking at about $500 in soil. I guess I was trying to avoid this additional cost (the bamboo plants are looking like they'll run me around $600 to cover that length) by tilling straw into the soil in an attempt to amend it, but I'm starting to have my doubts that will work. It would sure be a shame to lose $600 worth of plants due to bad soil!

Do you think I need to cover the entire area when making a raised bed or can I make mini raised beds? In other words, make a 3 ft diameter mound for each bamboo plant to grow into?
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Glen
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Re: Heavy poor draining clay

Post by Glen »

bamboo_bob wrote:Either that, or I can just pile top soil in mounds on top of the clay/straw mess and plant the bamboo in that.
This option sounds like the most "sure-fire" one to me. Running bamboos do not establish easily if they are frequently submerged. If you get them established on mounds, there is a pretty good chance of them spreading on their own into the wetter areas.

On my heavy clay soil, organic matter could only be helpful if it was added above the surrounding ground level. When it rains heavily, any hole containing a mixture of clay and organic matter just turns into a stinking bowl filled with clay and rotting organic matter. Most garden plants do not care for this.

A couple pictures might help us give you a better answer.
bamboo_bob
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Re: Heavy poor draining clay

Post by bamboo_bob »

Sure, this first one is after I tilled the soil using the roto-tiller. It rained right after, which is why you see some standing water.
IMG_4833.JPG.jpeg
This second one is after I laid down 5 bales of straw.
IMG_4844.JPG.jpeg
I'm about halfway through tilling it into the soil now and I've run a 6 inch deep trench down the left side. This trench will be used for rhizome pruning and to help with drainage.

As you can see, this is a rather large area. Covering it with 6 inches of topsoil would run about $500, which I'd like to avoid. If I can just make smaller, 3 ft diameter mounds to plant the bamboo in, it will be a lot cheaper if you think that would be a useful endeavor.
dependable
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Re: Heavy poor draining clay

Post by dependable »

As the others have stated, raised mounds would be your best option. I just posted how I accomplish this in the adjacent thread on planting on lava cap.
bamboo_bob
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Re: Heavy poor draining clay

Post by bamboo_bob »

Sounds like a plan then. How high and wide would you recommend the mounds be?
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Glen
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Re: Heavy poor draining clay

Post by Glen »

bamboo_bob wrote:As you can see, this is a rather large area. Covering it with 6 inches of topsoil would run about $500, which I'd like to avoid. If I can just make smaller, 3 ft diameter mounds to plant the bamboo in, it will be a lot cheaper if you think that would be a useful endeavor.
bamboo_bob wrote:How high and wide would you recommend the mounds be?
Ideally, make the mounds high enough to cover the rootballs, without digging your planting holes below the original grade. Basically, make the mounds as tall as the pots in which your starter plants were grown. Looking at the photographs, I think this will be enough. You should only have a problem if significant water stands ABOVE the original soil level for extended periods after heavy rainfall.

I think three feet is probably adequate, but a couple feet wider would be better. Make sure you have a plan to stabilize the mounds against erosion from rainfall. A heavy organic mulch will work, if it does not float away when the water gets high.

Remember, you can always make the mounds wider in the future, if you find it necessary. In the near term, height of the mounds is more critical than width.
dependable
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Re: Heavy poor draining clay

Post by dependable »

As Glen posted below, but ideally, if the mound wall is a little higher than the root ball near the outer edge, it will make watering easier, as it will be forming a slight crater, with the bamboo plant in the middle in the low point, even if by only a few inches.

I also agree you could add more material later. If you have a cheep source of compost, or compostable material such as wood chips, this can be added to outer part of mound as you go. Just remember to add a little more nitrogen to offset any uncomposted carbon (such as newer wood chips).
Nicholas
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Re: Heavy poor draining clay

Post by Nicholas »

Hi bamboo_bob,

you may want to consider a species such as phyllostachys heteroclada oder phyllostachys atrovaginata which are quite tolerant towards wet soils.

/edit I've got pretty heavy clay/loam here in Austria that gets very bogged down in spring. So far it hasn't been an issue but I've also started all my bamboos off by digging a deep hole and filling it with free-draining soil so they have a good spot to get established.
Tarzanus
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Re: Heavy poor draining clay

Post by Tarzanus »

I have used the same method. I just placed the roots on the ground level and piled compost, mulch,soil, wood shavings, bark and sand over it. Bamboos ran from the mound soon. The soil of original mound was (is) constantly dried out completely. Bamboos can be quite thirsty.

I would also recommend one of the bamboos that can tolerate wet conditions. Phyllostachys heteroclada and Phyllostachys atrovaginata are very tolerant, I have noticed that Pseudosasa japonica also doesn't mind growing into wet soil.
bamboo_bob
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Re: Heavy poor draining clay

Post by bamboo_bob »

so I spent a weekend excavating good quality soil from behind my house onto my raised bed. I took the level up about 2-3 inches more. Then I ordered 4 yards of topsoil for $200 and created about 15 mounds for the plants. I dug out the holes, filled with about 2 inches of humus and manure, placed the bamboo on top, then filled with a 50/50 mix of topsoil and the compost. Topped the mound off with straw to keep them wet and prevent erosion. After several heavy rainfalls, the soil in the mound never seems to have standing water. It's wet, but there are no visible pools. I think the trench around the mound really helps because the water runs through there like a river during a good rain.

I saved considerable money on the plants because I was able to transplant from a friend instead of buying from a nursery so I think I'll go ahead and just fill in the spaces between the mounds now. I'd like to give the plants a lot of good soil to spread out in and keep the rhizomes nice and high. Hopefully this will also help prevent escapes. I was thinking of buying a 60/40 mix of mushroom compost/topsoil to fill. I figured it would give the new plants some good nutrients and also help with soil quality and water retention.
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Location: on several acres of former clearcut corn field near folsom,la. loam concrete when dry, jello when wet.

Re: Heavy poor draining clay

Post by john voss »

I am trying out some Phyllo. heteroclada in a wet zone- one year on it's surviving, but sticking to it's mound.
ten years ago I placed some Phyllo. nidularia farcta in a swampy area. it has run a hundred feet in all directions and getting bigger all the time. almost scary, if you didn't love bamboo. most wet tolerant bamboo that I've tried. second best would be rubro.
zone 8b near folsom,la.
bamboo_bob
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Re: Heavy poor draining clay

Post by bamboo_bob »

Here's an update on my raised bed. I thought it needed some more shape so I picked up a bunch of fence pickets and used them to make a retaining wall. Then I ordered 7 yards of a 50/50 mix of topsoil and horse manure. Real loose, black stuff. I topped off the bed with it. The bed is 6 ft wide by 80 feet long. I have the plants spaced about every 5 feet. I plan on picking up some more straw to mulch the whole bed.

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dependable
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Re: Heavy poor draining clay

Post by dependable »

Looks like a good installation. Keep it watered in any hot dry spells this year, and it should get well established.
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