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 Post subject: Blue Bamboo ID
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:25 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:20 am
Posts: 11
Location: York
Hi everyone, I've found this bamboo with blue culms in a local garden centre in UK.
It's labelled as Fargesia Blue Dragon.

After doing some research on the old internet, this could be either a Borinda KR7613 propogated in-vitro in Belgium, it could be a Fargesia Murieliae clone, it could be Fargesia Draccophelea or it could be Fargesia Shennongija.

To me it looks more like the Borinda. Big leaves and fat culms for it's size. I also really hope it is the Borinda as I will buy it straight away :-)

Could only take one pic as I was short on time.


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Bamboo ID
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 1:28 pm
Posts: 1593
Location: HALIFAX, NS
I have a pic of 'Blue Dragon' with a note saying "Borinda papyrifera?". The culms in the pic are a lovely turquoise blue. Perhaps Steffen of the EBS can chime in. The photo credit is "tuincentrum" which is little help.

john

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Bamboo ID
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:43 am
Posts: 49
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Hi, this is certainly a Borinda. Can't say which one from the pic. BTW., this Shennongija is just newly introduced Fargesia murielae.
Steffen


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Bamboo ID
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:20 am
Posts: 11
Location: York
steffen wrote:
Hi, this is certainly a Borinda. Can't say which one from the pic. BTW., this Shennongija is just newly introduced Fargesia murielae.
Steffen

Thanks for the reply.
Thought it was a Borinda. Does being propogated in vitro affect hardiness or adult form or anything else really?
Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Bamboo ID
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:43 am
Posts: 49
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Problems with in vitro propagation was an issue 10 years ago, but mainly with leptomorph bamboos like Phyllostachys or Pseudosasa. These plants had many very thin culms and were less hardy. With improved technology it might be different today. I never observed anything negative with pachymorph bamboos like Fargesia. Although I did not have in vitro Borinda yet, they should be OK. What is the evidence for micro propagation in this case?
Regards, Steffen


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Bamboo ID
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:20 am
Posts: 11
Location: York
steffen wrote:
Problems with in vitro propagation was an issue 10 years ago, but mainly with leptomorph bamboos like Phyllostachys or Pseudosasa. These plants had many very thin culms and were less hardy. With improved technology it might be different today. I never observed anything negative with pachymorph bamboos like Fargesia. Although I did not have in vitro Borinda yet, they should be OK. What is the evidence for micro propagation in this case?
Regards, Steffen

I did a search on the internet for fargesia blue dragon, and one of the top search results was a bamboo forum from France. A guy on there has a blue dragon from the company Bamboo Select and contacted Oprins in Belgium who did the in vitro. They said it was in vitro propagation of Borinda KR7613.
This is the hardiest of the large, blue Borindas so to find one in a nursery a mile away from my house was amazing!


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Bamboo ID
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:43 am
Posts: 49
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Hi,
this is a Borinda, but very likely not KR 7613.
KR 7613 has streaks on it's culm sheaths, it has culm sheaths much shorter than the internodes on elongating culms, and it has smaller leaves (smaller than most other Borindas). Two pics of KR 7613 attached.
In addition, it's not true that KR 7613 is the hardiest of the large, blue Borindas. KR 5287 (and some others, last pic is 5287) Show better hardiness, get bigger and also have very blue culms. Might be that one find KR 7613 more beautiful and that the difference in hardiness does not matter in the UK, as it will not get that cold.

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Steffen


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Bamboo ID
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:43 am
Posts: 49
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
And, forgot to mention, KR 7613 has remarkably prominent nodes.

Attachment:
7613_2_small.jpg
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Steffen


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Bamboo ID
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:20 am
Posts: 11
Location: York
steffen wrote:
Hi,
this is a Borinda, but very likely not KR 7613.
KR 7613 has streaks on it's culm sheaths, it has culm sheaths much shorter than the internodes on elongating culms, and it has smaller leaves (smaller than most other Borindas). Two pics of KR 7613 attached.
In addition, it's not true that KR 7613 is the hardiest of the large, blue Borindas. KR 5287 (and some others, last pic is 5287) Show better hardiness, get bigger and also have very blue culms. Might be that one find KR 7613 more beautiful and that the difference in hardiness does not matter in the UK, as it will not get that cold.

Attachment:
7613_1_small.jpg


Attachment:
7613_3_small.jpg


Attachment:
5287_1_small.jpg


Steffen


Glad you mentioned KR5287 as i bought a 3.5 metre plant two weeks ago along with a KR7346 seedling.
The 5287 only has 6 culms so it looks sparse. Will fill out nicely next year.


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Bamboo ID
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:43 am
Posts: 49
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
KR 5287 two weeks ago in my garden. Pretty big now, spade for size comparison.
Steffen

Attachment:
5287_2_small.jpg
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5287_3_small.jpg
5287_3_small.jpg [ 154.89 KiB | Viewed 4133 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Bamboo ID
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:20 am
Posts: 11
Location: York
steffen wrote:
KR 5287 two weeks ago in my garden. Pretty big now, spade for size comparison.
Steffen

Attachment:
5287_2_small.jpg


Attachment:
5287_3_small.jpg

Wow that's a beauty!
How does it handle your winters and what minimum temps do you get?
Our record here is -12 in 2010, normal years only -5 or -6.
I guess you get a lot colder than that...and snowier!


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Bamboo ID
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:47 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:43 am
Posts: 49
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
The last 3 years we only had around -8°C which is not a problem at all. It does survive -15°C with some leaf damage. 8 years ago we had one night with almost -21°C, that killed it to the ground, but it recovers quite well from the rhizome. The only Borinda which was not totally top-killed in that below -20 night was KR 5913. But I still can not recommend it as it grows very untidily, just like Fargesia utilis e.g.
Best, Steffen


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Bamboo ID
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:08 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:43 am
Posts: 49
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Addendum: yesterdays pic of the base of KR 5913. I think one can imagine what the "problem" is ;-)
Steffen

Attachment:
5913_1_small.jpg
5913_1_small.jpg [ 169.4 KiB | Viewed 4083 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Bamboo ID
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 1:28 pm
Posts: 1593
Location: HALIFAX, NS
Steffen - Do you know think KR#5913 is indeed B. grossa as was once speculated? If so do other grossas have such hardiness?

john - bone dry & a chilly +12.8c!

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johnw coastal Nova Scotia


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Bamboo ID
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:43 am
Posts: 49
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
John, this is a very difficult question. To me several KRs look similar with respect to culm sheaths, culms, rhizome neck length and nodes: KR 5287, KR 5913, KR 6438, KR 6439, and KR 6791. They might all well be "grossas", on the other hand they are very different in size, uprightness and hardiness. Other KRs look very different and are most likely other species: KR 4175, KR 7613, KR 5177. KR 5177 with it's very short rhizome necks and smaller stature might match the description of macclureana.
Steffen


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