Phyllostachys propinqua 'The Lost Strain'

[Thuja]

Apparently the P. nuda at the Byron germplasm station is mislabeled and is really P. propinqua. According to Mike Hotchkiss this is a strain of propinqua that was grown in Savannah that never made it to bamboo nurseries. It was thought to have been lost. It was one of the fastest growing bamboo at Savannah.

Does anyone knowingly have this strain? How many people think they have nuda really have this propinqua? Unwittingly, I may be one of these people, so I'll be looking closely at my plants during the coming years. The most obvious differences might be shooting time and hardiness.

[Delbenes]

Hey Mike,
I got three #1 bamboo last summer 2004 from a west coast garden that were identified as Nuda. This year the shoots came up at the end of May after a winter with a -17 F low. The bamboo had lots of mulch, about two feet of oak leaves wrapped by a burlap windbreak. This year the older culms turned a yellow-orange-green. The leaves were small, about three inches long by a half inch wide. The plants shot 3 or 4 new culms each that grew to eight feet with a fertilizer of horse manure and straw. Then in late August, two shoots came up, one of which developed leaves six inches long by one inch wide! I also have a #2 spectablis and a #2 bissetii planted in the summer of 2004 that have kept small, with little rhizome spread (3-6 feet diameter), but the three unidentified bamboo are surprisingly aggressive with a 20 foot diameter spread that almost made it under the neighbor's fence. I dug up four sections of rooted rhizomes about five foot along, but realized too late that I could have planted them in pots to see if they'd shoot.
This winter I'm just giving all the bamboo about a foot of wood chips to see if they can take sub-zero temps again. I received a great #3 Nuda this August 2005 from Jim Bonner/Bamboo Plantation. Over eight feet tall, with a good size rhizome ball and three sturdy 1/2 inch culms. Looking forward to spring to see what comes up.
Here's a photo of the small and large leaves from the unidentified bamboo:
<img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a200/ ... uacopy.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

[needmore]

I have what was sold to me as a Propinqua and also a Propinqua Beijing. I see that in Europe the Beijing may be known as Lao Yu Gon or something similar? I wonder if the Beijing clone by some chance came out of the USDA location. It leapt to 3+ meters in the second shooting season which is pretty strong up sizing - larger than the 'plain' Propinqua for sure. I would be very surprised if a piece or 2 had not 'escaped' the USDA garden over the years and entered the retail stream.

[Thuja]

Brad, it's funny you should mention P. propinqua 'Beijing' because I was just thinking how it looks a lot like the plant I have labeled P. nuda 'Localis.' How's that for confusion?

[Steve in France]

Those green Ph Bamboos are a mystery often, between them all looking similar when they are small and often even the people who sourced them are not sure what they are, hence the names Shanghai #1 #2 and #3 for Jos's unknowns. Part of the problem seems to be from the Chinese side, like if they are short for an order they just go get some more from whatever is growing nearby or hey my brother has a bunch of Bamboo going mad lets dig it up and send it .The immature habit is no clue to what will happen in a few years and the new culm shoot colours maybe indistint. That's partly why I'm only growing Shanghai 3 and soon Ph Parvifolia as my green Ph Bamboos for the garden, I thought about getting the Li Yu Gan too but my winters are not that hard so I don't really need the insurance of this plant, besides the fact that as far as I know Shanghai 3 is just as Hardy.Good luck with your unknown's and I hope you all find that special giant that will perform in your conditions.
Later
Steve

[Thuja]

Nice photo Delbenes. I am also getting some large foliage on both P. propinqua Beijing and P. nuda Localis. Here are few pix showing the similarity between them.
Localis:
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/ ... _Small.jpg" alt="Localis">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/ ... sSmall.jpg" alt="Localis">
Beijing:
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/ ... nSmall.jpg" alt="Beijing">
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/ ... eSmall.jpg" alt="Beijing">

I don't have plain propinqua for comparison, but it sounds like it's less vigorous from what Brad said. Maybe the leaves are smaller too?

So far the plants I have labeled as plain nuda have much smaller foliage. I know that may not mean much in terms of ID but it certainly is noticeable now on immature growth. Lots of oral setae too. Go figure.

[needmore]

Mike, as Steve pointed out, the juvenile leaves should be ignored when considering ID's. They just are so unlike the mature leaves that they all look alike - more or less.

Next spring your shoots may be much easier to ID as the species should be more mature. All of my in-ground Nuda came from the same source and one that I would not necessarily claim to be reliable, but I do think that it is Nuda. I have some large 7 gallon Nudas in inventory that I obtained from another source and this source has a solid ID of Nuda - both of mine look pretty similar. I considered planting this other clone as well but space is getting tight so I'll be container growing Nuda as well.

[chele]

looks like y'all made my day..that is if your talking about the bamboo located in H2 at the usda byron station...thats labeled P.nuda ..

I have a plant of that here on my mtn growing that i got there last june during the clean up..no one was really interested in it but i was as i wanted a dark culm bamboo...

are y'all saying it is P.propinqua or P.p. "Beijing" ??

if so score one for the bamboogirl

[Thuja]

Yes, word has it that's Phyllostachys propinqua, the long "lost" strain that McClure collected in 1928

from the wilds along West River, near Wuchow, Kwangsi Province, China.

That will be interesting to hear about. Please let us know how it does for you.

More info on this is at:
http://www.bamboocraft.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1603 Bamboocraft.net

[chele]

does anyone know if its P.p."Bejing"

chele

[Thuja]

Unlikely, since P. p. 'Beijing' came from Beijing. There's some discussion of that too at the bamboocraft.net thread, http://www.bamboocraft.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1603. David Andrews thinks 'Beijing' might actually be a form of flexuosa.

That's about all I can contribute to the soap opera surrounding this plant.

[chele]

Unlikely, since P. p. 'Beijing' came from Beijing. There's some discussion of that too at the bamboocraft.net thread, http://www.bamboocraft.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1603. David Andrews thinks 'Beijing' might actually be a form of flexuosa.

That's about all I can contribute to the soap opera surrounding this plant.

i hear you..it is a very interested turn of event thou..one that i am a lucky one..as soon as the snow gone im going to go look at my not nuda bamboo lol

[chele]

so far my P.propinqua is doing ok as of today..the lowest temp so far this year been 8 degrees F.

mybe the rest of you can clear things up for me as i am confussed at this point..

if this plant i got at H2 is the "lost strain"(P.propinqua) what is the bamboo that 13 nurserys claim to have in the 2005 source list that say come from germany? how are we to really know that the two are the same?

or are all afraid to ruffle feathers/egos in the search for the truth in the name of science?

chele

[Roy]

so far my P.propinqua is doing ok as of today..the lowest temp so far this year been 8 degrees F.

mybe the rest of you can clear things up for me as i am confussed at this point..

if this plant i got at H2 is the "lost strain"(P.propinqua) what is the bamboo that 13 nurserys claim to have in the 2005 source list that say come from germany? how are we to really know that the two are the same?

or are all afraid to ruffle feathers/egos in the search for the truth in the name of science?

chele

Chele,

You need to go back and read this "Sticky".

http://bambooweb.info/bb/viewtopic.php?t=54

[Thuja]

if this plant i got at H2 is the "lost strain"(P.propinqua) what is the bamboo that 13 nurserys claim to have in the 2005 source list that say come from germany? how are we to really know that the two are the same?

They are probably not the same, and maybe not even the same species. As Roy alluded to, there is a long way to go before bamboo taxonomy is worked out, and even longer before the mistakes are corrected. Keep your eyes peeled!