I understand that if you see blemished leaves and you do not know if it will harm the bamboo then you may want to be sure and head off any serious issues but in general I'm just curious why folks are so quick to use strong herbicides/pesticides? I can understand the need too for serious mite or aphid issues, as a preventative in areas where it is likely to occur - or with issues such as the person with the post here about the unknown leaf eating bugs that are doing visible damage - but for thrips, minor scale outbreaks and other very minor cosmetic issues it seems like overkill to me.

Has anyone tried starting out with neem oil or products like 'Safer' before going to the serious stuff?

Our plants are not likely to have totally bleimsh-free or pest free foliage, and it makes me wonder if NOT treating minor issues is actually beneficial to the plant in terms of developing their own anti-pest/immune systems? There is data now suggesting that the increase in asthma, peanut allergies etc in children is linked to kids not playing in the dirt anymore and not developing a healthy internal crop of 'bugs'. Could this be true for plants as well?

Brad, you might be on to something here....

If the reaserch pans out, every X box, nintendo wii and the other gaming consoles may start coming with a baggie of soil so you can sprinkle it on your childeren while they are "playing".

just think if the residual sales there! every month or so, almost every home in urban and suburban america would have to go to wal mart to pick up another baggie of soil so they can keep sprinkling it upon thier children to keep them healthy!

we need a sarcasm smilie! I just kills me that kids today dont even know what sunshine is. games like tag and hide and seek are pretty much forgotten, and cell phones might as well become implants you get in the 5th grade.

anyway, on to your topic of pesticide use

I think that the newer you are, and the fewer plants you have, the more obsessed with whats going on with any particular one. if you only have 100 leaves to look at, you are going to notice some blemishes and worry... if you have a few million, you probably are going to be so busy watering, fertilizing, and trying to keep everything within bounds that you dont have time to see the little speckles on a few leaves.

For me, its a toss up betwixt total organic, and use chemicals- knowing that a plant has boo mites makes me break out the imidacloprid, otherwise, for a few grasshoppers, leaf bugs, etc, I figure the plant is going to grow more leaves anyway. fertilizer is one area Im not sure what to do about- I have used chemical fertilizers, but prefer the mulch and compost method. Im not sure I have seen any difference in growth between fertilizing heavily, and mulching and composting heaviliy.
the only thing I would hands down use massively toxic chemicals to get rid of would be gophers, but they are like cockroaches, they would probably survive it!

This may very well be true. It has been proven that babies who feed from their mother's milk develop stronger immune systems than those that use soy or other 'formula' mixes. So the use of chemicals to fight off pests may be hindering the evolution of the plant's own ability to fight them off.

Never sprayed any bamboo here, they seem to look after themselves in the long run

After getting mites from a major bamboo source I have gone to spraying or using a soil drench and quarantining any new bamboos that I get. I do use neem oil to soak down the leaves of plants that I dig and haul across the state in my pickup. Besides killing insects it also seems to slow down desiccation of the leaves. After the initial dose of insecticides the plants are doing well without any strong insecticides.

For Pocket gophers I have used about anything available but I use a lot less than I use to since I started using Castor Oil as a deterrent.

Bill

For me it was the combination of a very young and fragile moso, being my only plant of that species, and seeing the problem seem to spread instead of get better. This plant was also my first shipped in from another part of the US - all of my others have come from the Southeast and I've never seen more than a few grasshopper bites on the leaves. I guess I'm a little paranoid about introducing something that will spread to the rest of my bamboo too.

I ended up spraying the moso as well as the two madake that are near it. I haven't seen the same spots on the madake leaves, but figured better safe than sorry. It's been two days since I sprayed and I've seen no sign of it hurting the bamboo (yet).

I agree with you that too much "cleanliness" can make us all weaker overall. I'm not looking to go spray pesticides willy-nilly, but decided it was probably worth it in this case. I am watching nervously to see the results though...

I'm curious to hear more about leem oil.

I also think ghmerrill has a very good point. I don't have very many plants, so I pay pretty close attention to those I do have. The fewer of a plant I have, the more attention I pay to it and fret over it. The ten stands of rubro I have that are doing well and taking over I barely pay any attention to any more, and they do fine. This baby moso and my two yearling madake plants I check on and tend almost daily. I have some larger nigra and japonica I transplanted this year that's in the middle somewhere...

I didn't mean that to sound argumentative - I was just trying to explain what was going on in my head. I'm pretty new to all this, and if there are big gaping holes in my reasoning I'd love to learn a better way!

Matt, I dont think anyone took it as argumentative... I would be all of us have been at the same point. when you start collecting, and you have a few plants, you spend more time obsessing over each one, and you notice every thing that happens. as your collection grows, and as the plants get larger and cover more ground, you just dont pay as much attention to those little details.

I'm sad to the point of whimpering that my bamboos, rare and unusual, CANNOT be gifted to the ABS/chapter auctions because....I've got mites. And two acres. And seemingly no control. The ABS Conference brought us new info about state-of-the art miticides. The EPA has pulled the plug on Othene, described as "not very effective" by Robin Rosetta, and she presented a panoply of pesticidal products. 'Kontos' is highlighted in her remarks.

According to the self-named DFW resident and radio host, the Dirt Doctor, Howard Garrett, insect attacks on plants increase when good critters in the soil and immediate surroundings are not being tended to and fed, including microorganisms, worms, and other "beneficials" including insects, amphibians, reptiles, birds etc.

He is strongly against man made chemicals of any kind, because he says it interferes and destabilizes the natural systems that support the plant. The disruption in pH and wide swings in chemical composition due to introduced man made chemistry are analogous to toxicity to these supporting organisms, and that the syncytium that makes up the overall composition of these organisms are quite stable in an otherwise rich organic environment.

It is the supporting system rather than the plant itself, that should be the focus of successful gardening, according to his overall philosophy. His solutions are not gratifying to the quick results most gardeners seek in desperation, though the preventative, gradual, and long term approach allegedly offer superior results from parasitical attack and high yield to boot.

The stuff he uses includes green sand, lava sand, cornmeal, alfalfa meal, molasses, cider vinegar, orange oil, compost, mulches and other amendments which are designed to feed the system, rather than the plant. In addition, he makes suggestions of supportive plants and animal shelters that will attract or add to the overall syncytium.


Regards,
Mackel in DFW

From the Dirt Doctor's website (http://www.dirtdoctor.com/organic/garde ... ews/id/40/):


Anybody with mite infestations care to comment?

I have noticed Tree Frogs in my bamboo???
I do not know what they eat? But they are there...
Always when I do not have a camera handy
Even when I do not see them I can hear them croaking they stop when I approach the bamboo. I noticed a large lump on a boo the first time I saw the frogs and went to reach for it and it jumped. Ok, Ok, "I jumped too"

I have noticed some leaves discolored on my bamboo and have examined them but can not see any webs like the ABS describes..
http://www.americanbamboo.org/GeneralIn ... Mites.html
I will take a closer look with a magnifying glass tomorrow to see if there are mites but I do not think they are there????

How big of a problem is this?

Should I be concerned???
From Bamboo Tony

About a month ago I had a toad get on the door to the deck and jump spread-eagled(spread-toaded?) at my face. AIIIEEE!

At least it wasn't a squirrel. (For those who remember the TV series "Doctor Doctor".)

Mackel in DFW is dead on! Bamboo mites don't occur naturally. They are introduced to your garden from bamboo you bring in. If there is a natural balance in the garden system, pests and disease are kept to a minimum and rarely are cause for concern. Like Bill I quarantine all new acquisitions for 30 days and inspect each leaf every few days for mites. You can spot them early by inspecting just the underside of the leaf. If webbing is found, the side branch is removed first then if needed the whole branch or the entire culm is removed. If hand picking can't clean up the plant in 30 days it goes in a closed yard debris bin. Periodically I inspect every bamboo in the garden during mite season and remove infected side and whole branches as needed. Even 30 foot tall culms get bent over and inspected (with rubber gloves of course!) You learn which plants you have to pay attention to and which ones you don't have to worry about.

There are some nurseries you just don't buy bamboo from period. I've thrown out numerous potted bamboos over the years that could not be controlled the natural way. Sometimes you have to cut your losses for the good of the whole garden and just accept defeat. I've managed to keep my garden almost completely free of bamboo mites using this method. You'd be amazed at the sheer number of creatures living in a bamboo grove if you don't spray chemicals.

By the way Bamboo Garden in North Plains, Oregon has historically had the "cleanest" bamboo over anyone else, IMHO

I use neem oil and I use acephate Isotox usually on new acquisitions and plants I overwinter indoors. my problem is spider mites though