Southern Nova Scotia

[johnw]

For quite awhile I worked for a nursery on the west coast from here. In the mid-90's I sold a local nursery a bunch of one gallon Monkey Puzzle Trees for their houseplant section. A fellow walked in one day and picked one up thinking it was an odd spruce.

He planted it in his garden on the French shore of southern Nova Scotia, a spot notorious for its very nasty & persistent winds, fog and relatively cool mild climate. Note the battered native spruce in the background.

Yesterday I went to see it and stood in disbelief. Not bad for a Chilean Zone 8. Thanks to local nurserywoman Alice (in photo for scale) for taking me there.

Fifteen years later and probably the most Northern specimen on the east coast:

[canadianplant]

IT looks so happy.......

[johnw]

That's what struck me as well. I've seen enough badly burnt ones.

With the ocean just in spitting distance this garden is even more exposed as it's on the crest of a hill. I am also amazed that fence hasn't blown down.

I think the superb drainage up there is very much a requirement as, of course, is full "sun".

[johnw]

And the Gunneras are emerging here. This one is G. manicata I think, haven't seen the flowers on this one at a friend's nursery. The first leaves - the hazard of a covering of straw - were hit by a frost in late April but now they're ready to explode. Bugs don't seem to touch it, its enemies are heat and humidity and very cold winters

Can reach 8ft high with 6ft wide leaves in a wet summer. (p.s. yes, they cover them with straw, then a sheet of plastic to prevent excessive wet at the crown and another layer of straw to keep the sun off the plastic.)

[canadianplant]

I would almost say take a few cuttings of that arucaria, but I wouldnt want to ruin the shape of it. Did you end up speaking with the homeowner to let him know exactly what he has?"

[johnw]

canadianplant

No need to take cuttings as it is just a seedling like an other commercial Araucaria from B.C. - the source. The climate is probably more remarkable than any extra hardiness of this particular Monkey Puzzle.

It didn't take long for the homeowner to learn he had something unique.

Mike

No, Monkey Puzzles are not hardy throughout Nova Scotia. The area where this one grows is a very thin sliver on the southern tip of NS that is very mild in winter and very cool in summer; sort of an anomaly like Martha's Vineyard is to Massachuesetts. Given good drainage and full sun I think it will do okay in this particular area of NS. As for the rest of NS there is one very small one (a meter maybe) - with some burning - near Liverpool but it has only been out for only a few winters and we have not had a cold winter since. I saw Monkey Puzzles decimated here in Halifax in the 70's and 80's though there was one growing here for some time in the milder 50's I'm told. It might be worth a try in exceptionally well-drained areas of St. John's, Newfoundland as there, and in that aforementioned coastal NS sliver, the ground rarely freezes deeply and winter lows are not excessive or prolonged.

I see on one of the other sites a BC sales rep in Ontario claiming Monkey Puzzles are "hardy in Nova Scotia... one growing on the eastern shore". Absolute rubbish! There are none to my knowledge on the cold eastern shore of NS, just a stupid sales pitch based on hearsay. I wouldn't race out lining the streets here with tress until we move up to Zone 7b or Z8 with global warming! Sure, by all means keeners might have a go at one but let the facts be known.

You ask about the Dove Tree, yes there was a flowering one here in the city last year (flowered full tilt) but as I suspected it was not the hardier var. vilmoriniana. I drove past it Sunday, it was severely damaged and we only got to -12c in the city last winter. So look out for that variety and check the leaf diagnostics before purchasing. 'Sonoma' appears to be the tender one, again var. involucrata.

re: Gunnera spp. see my p.s. to the original posting.

Hope this answers your queries and I should probably have pm'ed this but for the record others should know.

[johnw]

Here is the same Gunnera manicata today. The spikeless tip of the amazing flower distinguishes it from G. tinctoria.

[Jeff: Igor's Apprentice]

That Monkey Puzzle tree is absolutely stunning.

[Paul Ont]

John, Just back from a trip to cali and noticed this post. Was hoping to get Yucca brevifolia pollen to put on Y. glauca.. Alas I was a month too late. I did, however, get Yucca rostrata pollen, which should make for some excellent hybrids.

WOW has that tree ever grown since the last pic I saw of it (maybe 2006?). That southwest coast micro-climate is incredible! Does anyone down there grow Cunninghamia? Though, truth be told, if I could manage Arucaria I would not grow Cunninghamia... What about Coast Redwood?

I've been looking over the material you sent me (Fargesia), thanks for sending it!

Would you mind terribly if I posted a link to this topic on another forum?

[Paul Ont]

P.S. the one in N-O-L has only been in the ground for 7 years (and is smaller and not nearly as happy)... http://exoten.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/hardy. ... DF70A4FFE5

It is at 43.2 north, certainly further south than the one in your pictures!

[johnw]

Paul - Yes the Monkey Puzzle has grown like mad, I too can hardly believe how big it's become in such a short time. It would appear from the link that the one in N-O-L is not liking the climate there as all the previous growth seems to be fried - cold, heat or low humidity in winter? I've never been enthusiastic about Cunninghamia, if it grew bushier to hide the old needles which don't seem to slough off then it might be passable. I've seen a few about but they're nothing to write home about, struggling mainly. BTW the Monkey is at 43.6731° N so pretty close in latitude to Niagara on the Lake.

I think the coastal redwood, Sequoia sempervirens, might be a bit tender even in southern NS and it would also be too tall to withstand the wind. The big Sequoiadendron in Kentville blew down in the autumn of 2010. Hort students tried desperately to propagate it with no success.

Good luck with your Yucca project. My old Y. rostrata has never flowered but soldiers on.

By all means post on the Fargesia info wherever you like. What puzzles me is that so many of the Fargesias, Borinda & Yushanias grow at the same elevations in Sichuan, Yunnan and Guizhou as many of the rhodo species we can grow successfully here and yet those bamboos are so hopelessly tender.

[canadianplant]

I always wondered if anyone grew Redwoods there. Too bad that one blew down.

In regards to the altitude. Maybe the altitude given or the bamboo is at the species limits, while the rhodies still go up further? Chinas geography is varied, so even in Yunnan, there could be a large variation in climate, even at the "same" altitude (microclimates)?

[johnw]

I always wondered if anyone grew Redwoods there. Too bad that one blew down.
In regards to the altitude. Maybe the altitude given or the bamboo is at the species limits, while the rhodies still go up further? Chinas geography is varied, so even in Yunnan, there could be a large variation in climate, even at the "same" altitude (microclimates)?

One of the hazards of common names, the Redwood is Sequoia but the Giant Sequoia is Sequoiadendron and it was the latter that was growing here until it toppled in a freak storm in the Annapolis Valley. I haven't heard of anyone that's had a Redwood survive here.

True some rhodo species go almost to the max altitude but these are oftentimes dwarfed and buried in snow the winter long. So these ones are sometimes not as tough as ones growing slightly lower down, they can't handle summer heat, a growing season that is too long or surprsingly intense cold. The problem is finding out the correct altitude to collect. No question the climate is varied up there with wet areas on one side of a mountain and dry on the opposite but I'd guess the temps would be the same at similar altitudes.(???) My guess is the rhodos are better at producing hardy forms are they flower every year, the seeds are light, highly mobile and can move up and down if the winds are right; bamboos would be so much slower at this.

In Fred Vaupel's Yunnan video I see Rhodo species we can easily grow and yet there are the beautiful turquoise-culmed Borindas growing alongside, amazing how much shade they are in and how dry it seems to be.

[canadianplant]

One of the hazards of common names, the Redwood is Sequoia but the Giant Sequoia is Sequoiadendron and it was the latter that was growing here until it toppled in a freak storm in the Annapolis Valley. I haven't heard of anyone that's had a Redwood survive here.

True, redwoods should had quotations, since I was referencing both. Im guilty of being too general sometimes ....

True some rhodo species go almost to the max altitude but these are oftentimes dwarfed and buried in snow the winter long. So these ones are sometimes not as tough as ones growing slightly lower down, they can't handle summer heat, a growing season that is too long or surprsingly intense cold. The problem is finding out the correct altitude to collect. No question the climate is varied up there with wet areas on one side of a mountain and dry on the opposite but I'd guess the temps would be the same at similar altitudes.(???) My guess is the rhodos are better at producing hardy forms are they flower every year, the seeds are light, highly mobile and can move up and down if the winds are right; bamboos would be so much slower at this.

That is a good point about the snow. Thats what helps me get away with so much here. Again it would depend on exactly where it is, and whether the area has reliable snowfall.

I personally dont think the temps would be the same at the same altitude. Depending on winds, what side of the mountains its on, exposure to sun and trees, rock exposure should influence the temps. I would assume in the same general area it would be the same, but 100 miles away on the opposite side, I dont think it would be.

In my reading, I dont think ive read exactly why most bamboo produces seeds so many years apart. The only associations Ive heard of with bamboo is the Panda, and in the case of Fargesia, pine/oak forests. Ive also read that Trachycarpus Nanus, has been found near a "small clumping" bamboo, but cannot find the ID of it to save my life. I even wrote Toby (It was an article that the RPS founders wrote), and he had no idea.

In Fred Vaupel's Yunnan video I see Rhodo species we can easily grow and yet there are the beautiful turquoise-culmed Borindas growing alongside, amazing how much shade they are in and how dry it seems to be.

A buddy of mine in NC managed to find what was labeled "Fargesia Denudata". I told him that theyre really tough to grow down there, because of the water/cool temps it needs. I told him it needs almost FULL all day shade there, maybe a tiny bit of morning/late evening sun. What does he do? Plant it in bright dappled light that gets 3 hours of direct sun. Take a guess at how it looks now!

Even up here at 48 degrees lat. , My rufa does better when its shaded, or in dappled light. The F Scabrida I experimented with was in full shade, except the slats in the fence. It grew like a weed, shooting ALL growing season. I cant say much about Borinda etc, becasue I wont be able to get then to survive here.

[tncry]

Gunnera manicata in Prince Edward Island. It has survived two winters so far. It is not upsizing fast but it is also planted in the shade. I am just happy to keep it alive. I may divide it someday if it gets big enough and plant another piece in a full sun location to see it's true potential in PEI.