Why is Moso so hard to grow large?

[johnw]

David - Good to have these assertions out there. Pretty much what many suspected given the literature noting the intractibility of Moso cultivation in many places. I wonder how it does in the not-so-humid parts of the PNW? Would it be one of the first on the mite's menu?

[johnw]

Tarzanus said "Moso is meant to grow in Mediterranean climate."

Seems happiest in Japan which is more steamy than mediterranean. Yesterday I read in this month's issue of the RHS's The Garden that a moso at Trebah Gardens in Cornwall in sw England reached 23ft tall with culms measured at 6" (15cm) in diameter. That's pretty impressive in a mild but cool climate, the diameter is awfully large given the height.

[stevelau1911]

In climates where it never gets hot, bamboo shoots cannot grow that fast and produce nice long nodes as they do down south. My moso will likely exceed 2 inches in diameter before getting to 15ft. Shoots tend to emerge when there is a lower soil temperature, and that results in slower growth during the shooting season.

The UK also does not get extremely cold making it possible to grow most temperate bamboos.

[mountainbamboonut]

Steve, I looked through the photos of your Moso and I was wondering if it will even reach 15 ft--In other words stop growing in a bush-type fashion. Is there some kind of plan you have with them? It seems like your plantings really struggles to stay alive. Just curious.

[Nicholas]

Steve, I looked through the photos of your Moso and I was wondering if it will even reach 15 ft--In other words stop growing in a bush-type fashion. Is there some kind of plan you have with them? It seems like your plantings really struggles to stay alive. Just curious.

Interesting that you come to that conclusion. In my eyes his bicolor is doing really well (don't forget that he is taking divisions from it!) but I am also doubtful that it will stay manageable size-wise.

This year I'm also going to experiment with a bicolor planting (I'm zone 7 here in the east of Austria) and next year maybe even with a nabeshimana .
My plan is to have a small area where I can double-tarp a section of the plant that is kept small enough to fit into the cover. This is basically just an insurance that the entire planting does not die and may help when total leaf loss occurs on exposed sections (that way the plant may not downsize as much during harsh winters because it retains some leaf mass for shooting).

If the exposed parts show enough resilience during really cold winters I'll eventually do away with the protected section. I'm not sure I'd go through all the troubles for regular moso but for the more special forms I think it is a trade-off I'm willing to make.

[mountainbamboonut]

How do I put it, I mean that it seems his Moso is not really able to grow true to its form in that climate. In other words it is a stretch for the plant to flourish. Which speaks to the point of this thread, I don't think any bamboo has trouble 'getting large' or reaching its genetic potential at all if the environment is right. If the environment is wrong and one needs to resort to artificial means to minick a native environment (christmas lights/tarps) then the bamboos dob't seem to flourish. There is no mystery to it really. I am wondering though if Steve can manage to keep putting on size with his Moso that someday the plant will be strong enough to grow more in line with its true upright form? I have not researched this at all and I am sure some of you have.

[stevelau1911]

When the moso bicolor manages to outgrow its 20x12x8 greenhouse, I could simply upgrade to the 40x30x16 type which should be able to contain up to 30ft culms, but the thing I enjoy even more is growing stuff clearly out of my climate zone with a bit of extra pampering. I find it rewarding to see plants that shouldn't be able to grow in my area get nice and big.

Of course some of the division's from this grove that are already down south will likely surpass this grove by the summer of 2017.

[T9D]

In 2020 we'll be able to see steves new newest greenhouse from orbit

[mountainbamboonut]

hahaha greenhouse from space, good one.

That makes sense Steve, you like the challenge of growing bamboos in less than optimal conditions, I can appreciate that. With the added bonus of maybe getting them established some day and baffling people by their being in your zone. It will be fun to see how it plays out.

[ShmuBamboo]

My experience with Moso and what I have seen in the western US is highly varied. I have sold all of my Moso boos now. No more. It gets too cold here most winters for it to do well. It is also dry here, but I do not think that was a limiting factor growing it here. Below 15 F. or so it starts to lose a lot of leaves. If you leave it in pots here it will stay juvenile and never size up, even in 25 gallon tubs. Vivax and Nigras will push up adult culms here in that size tub and grow a lot faster. Moso seems to vary greatly in microclimates here in Oregon and up and down the western US west of the Sierras and Cascades.

I am quite surprised that Moso is doing well in Estacada, as that is not far south of where I live. The only inland place that I have seen Moso reach full size here in the Portland area is at Bamboo and Koi Garden in West Linn. Paul has a great Moso stand at his display gardens there. Bamboo Garden has a smaller stand in North Plains, but it does not compare to Paul's. The biggest and best Moso stand in Oregon that I have seen was at RKR in Coos Bay on the coast in south Oregon. They have a large amount of Moso there, but it typically gets blown over in the high winds that they have there in winter when the soil is wet.

In California the best Moso stand I have seen was at Hakone Gardens in Saratoga. Their stands of Moso and Vivax were rather impressive. They keep re-introducing Tortoise Shell Moso plants there, but it keeps reverting to plain Moso. Not far north of there is a large stand of Moso at Foothill College in Los Altos, but the Moso there is on a dry hot hillside and it is not doing well. The curator there asked me to tell anyone and everyone that Moso simply does not do well in a lot of inland climates in California. Next to the Moso stand there was a stand of Vivax that was planted at the same time as the Moso, and he Vivax had reached full height and size and looked much more lush and happy than the Moso there.

[Robbie78]

Up here in Oregon, Bamboo Garden has a huge groove with Moso over 5 inch diameter. This year I'm finally getting some shoots, and some are over 2 inch dia I'm pretty excited. I guess getting 15 and 25 gallon plants is paying off


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[stevelau1911]

Leaf buds are clearly elongated now on my moso bicolor which means it should be coming out of dormancy. The rhizomes take up an area about 6ft in diameter so I'm planning on loading a good 40lbs of 10-10-10 over the entire area. Would that be a bit of over-kill or should the plant manage to take it up resulting in a stronger shooting season?

I may even brew a couple 55 barrels of alfalfa tea just to make sure shooting season is nothing short of amazing. The greenhouse cover will have to come off anyways since it's getting into the 70s, and 80s inside the greenhouse which could induce shooting too early. When the sun is out, the greenhouse is 20-30 degrees warmer than the outside, and the soil has been unfrozen for the most part for about a month now.

I'm kind of amazed how this one still manages to have no leaf burn when the greenhouse still dropped to around -6F, but I guess temperatures do not tell the whole story. The soil under the barrels inside the greenhouse just don't seem to ever freeze especially when there's another plastic layer to hold in more heat as well as decomposing leaf mulch under the entire ground of the greenhouse. Some potted bamboos got destroyed, but this one which is not supposed to be that hardy has more green leaves than ever going into the 2015 growing season. It would be interesting to see if this guy puts out some 2 inchers this year.

[Cooper12]

Leaf buds are clearly elongated now on my moso bicolor which means it should be coming out of dormancy. The rhizomes take up an area about 6ft in diameter so I'm planning on loading a good 40lbs of 10-10-10 over the entire area. Would that be a bit of over-kill or should the plant manage to take it up resulting in a stronger shooting season?

I may even brew a couple 55 barrels of alfalfa tea just to make sure shooting season is nothing short of amazing. The greenhouse cover will have to come off anyways since it's getting into the 70s, and 80s inside the greenhouse which could induce shooting too early. When the sun is out, the greenhouse is 20-30 degrees warmer than the outside, and the soil has been unfrozen for the most part for about a month now.

I'm kind of amazed how this one still manages to have no leaf burn when the greenhouse still dropped to around -6F, but I guess temperatures do not tell the whole story. The soil under the barrels inside the greenhouse just don't seem to ever freeze especially when there's another plastic layer to hold in more heat as well as decomposing leaf mulch under the entire ground of the greenhouse. Some potted bamboos got destroyed, but this one which is not supposed to be that hardy has more green leaves than ever going into the 2015 growing season. It would be interesting to see if this guy puts out some 2 inchers this year.

40 lbs seems like a lot though I agree on the all purpose fertilizer. What brand do you use?
I raise chickens so I am always using aged manure, burn pile ash from winter piles and a 6-4-6 alaskan fertilizer with my plantings in fall and winter and use a hyponex 16-16-16 spring and summer though i don't feed much in the middle of summer , in containers I forgo the chicken manure and top dress with steer manure and use the 6-4-6 in fall, winter and use a hyponex triple 16 in spring , summer. To me in the ground a constant flow of mulch , and good flow of manure seem to do the most good.

[Bamboo4me2]

I think Moso just takes time and a little tending.
I have Moso in a very hot dry climate.( humidity is around 10% in the summer) Chico CA. Put in as a 36 inch box, But lots of stress and infrequent watering. ( clay soil helps me survive the moisture problem- water maybe every 3 weeks in 100 plus degree super low humidity heat) I now have about a 20x20 ' grove of up to 2.5 inch culms. It has never been fertilized which is probably the problem also.
Besides the lack of water it is only around 25 feet tall so far. My Bambusoides dwarfs it. It was put in at the same time. It is 55 feet tall and around 4 inches in diameter. with a 60 plus foot diameter grove.
But in Auburn CA, Hot, not as dry, in a creek overflow area, I have seen it to 6.5-7 inches. I think he has been growing it for near 20 years. The cut off culm sections looks like a bucket.
I think the guy lost his property around 2008 the real estate crash, I haven't been by for around 6-8 years. If anyone wants a Bamboo farm he had the largest size in CA I would imagine. About 15 varieties all large. They grow taller than the large Oak trees

Moso: Best looking, super small leaves in a drooping fern like canopy. Plus the culms are cool feeling with the soft fuzzy texture.

[Mackel in DFW]

I'm thinking it may be very sensitive to municipal water (moso). I've killed 2 in Dallas. I notice that the nigras do better with acidified tap water than if left untreated.