Small introduction

Anything that does not fit in another Forum...

Moderator: needmore

Ineluki
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:14 am
Location info: 0
Location: Finland

Small introduction

Post by Ineluki »

Hello all :)
This is my small introduction and about the growing conditions and bamboos im growing.
I live in Finland zone 2 and im trying to find suitable phyllostachys bamboo that will grow in my garden.
My plants experience extremely harsh winters (lowest temperatures can be in over -20 C many days in row) and days a extremely dark.Summer can be either wet and cold or dry and extremely warm.
Not ideal condition,but im still trying :D
Bamboos i have in my garden now are all Phyllostachys species and contains next four species: p.Atrovaginata, P.Bissetii, P.Nuda and P.Vivax Huangwenzhu.
Im happy to take all the tips and guidance you can give and hope i can find extremely frost hard bamboo for me :)

Merry christmas and a Happy new year all :)
johnw
Posts: 1616
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 1:28 pm
Location info: 0
Bamboo Society Membership: EBS - Germany
Location: HALIFAX, NOVA SCOTIA

Re: Small introduction

Post by johnw »

Ineluki - A very warm welcome to the Forum.

Can you tell us about the four Phyllos that you are now growing and how they perform above or protected below the snowline? Also for any recommendations forumists may make what are you expectations for these Phyllos and how will you treat them for the winter? Can you also summarize your climate both winter & summer?

Here in Nova Scotia we are not as cold. Only Phyllostachys aureosulcata in its various forms are grown, and not by many people. A very large grove of P. aureosulcata 'Alata' froze to the ground in the February of 2013 at -22c, that was in the colder interior of NS. Here in Halifax the low was -17.5 and there was a bit of leaf burn on P. aureosulcata 'Aureocaulis' but not much. A brief bout of -18c appears to be the limit of this species above the snow cover here - when there is snowcover. Personally I am willing to protect a newly planted bamboo but once it gets big it is impossible to do so and is on its own, so it has to be hardy above the snowline for me.

Three of your Phyllo choices appear to be worth a try, maybe not the vivax for above snow survival.

The best site for reliable hardiness information is Brad Salmon's and he is a forumist here.

http://needmorebamboo.com/?cat=12

http://needmorebamboo.com/?page_id=772

Do realize responses may be slow coming in until after the holidays.
johnw coastal Nova Scotia
Ineluki
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:14 am
Location info: 0
Location: Finland

Re: Small introduction

Post by Ineluki »

All of my bamboos grow in raised beds since its most convealing and helpfull way to grow plants in my climate and soil i have here.What come to over wintering i have very limited data since my oldest plantation of P.Nuda is now 3 years old and since i have chosed the planting place poorly it has been died back to ground every winter and next years growth is been getting smaller every year (probably gonna die this year but if it survives i gonna change its place to more sunnier spot.I protect my plants whit sort of cloth tarp and some plywood (sort of tent like construction)Also i give them extra layer of leafs mulch to protect the root system.Most positive surprise last winter was P.vivax it lost it leafs but the culms stayed alive and growed new leafs on summer and some small shoots.Unfortunatly i notised that it tryed to start bloom on fall so it probably is gonna die this winter too.I planted Bissetii and atrovaginata this summer so i can tell more about them in spring.
I have amended my soil whit sand and horse manuer compost and i give bamboos chicken maneur fertilizer in growing season.

What comes to summer and winter temperatures i think that lowest temperatures in summer time are +13 to +15 Celsius and highest +28->+30 C (summer temperatures are changing every year but this year summer was warm and long and we havent had any long cold spells here yet)
Winter i think average temperatures are from minus 7 to minus 13 C but the peaks can be in my region as severe as minus 27 Celsius (again thanks to global warming winters are very changeable but usually from January to End of March there coud be very cold weather and light levels are extremely low from October to end of February.

Other challenges come in spring when soil is frozen solid and light levels are raising fastly most evergreens will suffer burn damage if not protected from harsh spring sun (spring time sun contains extremely large amount of UV radiation so its not unheard of for even people have sun burns).
I have readed Brads site and its pretty well known even whit other fins who are trying different types of bamboo in southern parts of Finland :)

Hope this cleared something and i pardon my poor english hope you understand it :)
stevelau1911
Posts: 3083
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:15 pm
Location info: 42
Location: upstate NY zone 6B
Contact:

Re: Small introduction

Post by stevelau1911 »

Welcome to the forums.

There really hasn't been anyone here growing bamboos in zone 2 before. Here's a link to winter protection that would work in a climates in the zone 6 range. http://www.bambooweb.info/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4789

I'm not sure how much that may help your situation, but here's my solar greenhouse which may work for you if you have an artificial source of heat. The one I have now has an easy pull off cover so it can be removed partially in about 15 minutes without too much effort.
http://www.bambooweb.info/bb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3670

There are forum members in the cooler parts of Canada who may be able to help you out better for methods which may actually work, but growing bamboos in zone 2 is really pushing the zone. The real problem lies in that the soil temperature will get too cold for the rhizomes to stay alive under prolonged cold spells so it may be necessary to have a greenhouse setup with some kind source of heating. Electric heaters may be costly so I would imagine that something such as a kerosene heater, wood or pellet stove, or something that involves burning of biomass would be sustainable. If you have the resources, then a deep well for a greenhouse may work given that 20+ft down, you have soil that stays relatively warm where it would be easy to draw air from with a small fan. It would also likely make sense to have them in containers that can be moved into a relatively cold spot in the home through the winters for a few years until they get big enough to have a chance outside.

I'm not discouraging you to try and grow bamboos, but if you do are set on growing it in your climate, I would strongly advise having a solid plan in place so you don't end up with lots of dead plants.
johnw
Posts: 1616
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 1:28 pm
Location info: 0
Bamboo Society Membership: EBS - Germany
Location: HALIFAX, NOVA SCOTIA

Re: Small introduction

Post by johnw »

Ineluki

If your lowest temperature is -27c then you would be in North American Zone 5b. I assume Z2 is a Scandavian zone right?

Your low winter light will certainly help to avoid leaf burn although wind and below -15c are certainly factors too.

Where are you in Finland? North or south or Turku?
johnw coastal Nova Scotia
Ineluki
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:14 am
Location info: 0
Location: Finland

Re: Small introduction

Post by Ineluki »

I understand the confusion i meant im zone 2 in my own country (its pretty much same as zone 5 in usda).Im livin North of Turku near Pori.
What i know is that in southern reagions of Finland (south of Turku) there has been good success whit some other types of bamboo (sasa and Fargesia) so im hopping that nether Bissetii or atrovaginata would work in my yard.
johnw
Posts: 1616
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 1:28 pm
Location info: 0
Bamboo Society Membership: EBS - Germany
Location: HALIFAX, NOVA SCOTIA

Re: Small introduction

Post by johnw »

Can you tell us which Sasas and Fargesias they are having sucess with in southern Finland?

I'd say bissetii and atrovaginata are well worth a try for you, with heavy protection though. Others may or may not agree but those two should be close to aureosulcata for hardiness.

+3c and very damp at 22:25.
johnw coastal Nova Scotia
Ineluki
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:14 am
Location info: 0
Location: Finland

Re: Small introduction

Post by Ineluki »

Theres Sasa kurilensis,Sasa senanensis,Sasaella masamuneana 'Albostriata,Sasa palmata f. nebulosa and from Fargesia there at least F.Rufa and im not sure if i remember correctly F.Nitida. Ofc you must remember that succes whit these kind plants can vary each winter and what i have understanded right about fargesias is that most of them die to the ground but grow back each year se bamboo is considered more or less perenial plant here.Again this vary each year also much of the winter survival depends on snow amount we get (little snow-> frost goes deeper to the ground and when there lots of snow smaller bamboos coud be totaly under snow protection).
User avatar
needmore
Posts: 4899
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:14 pm
Location info: 0
Bamboo Society Membership: ABS - America
Location: Kea'au, HI

Re: Small introduction

Post by needmore »

I think Sasa oshidensis is hardier than them all, S palmata not so hardy here, some of the Indocalamus are hardier than palmata.
Brad Salmon, zone 12B Kea'au, HI
http://www.needmorebamboo.com
Ineluki
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:14 am
Location info: 0
Location: Finland

Re: Small introduction

Post by Ineluki »

Havent even heard about those :D yet again i have only phyllostachys in my garden.This winter has been nice thou.Weather broadcast said it will be +5C all the way to early January.Whit little luck we dont get hard frost before the end of January.Its extremely warm considering what time of year it is.
johnw
Posts: 1616
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 1:28 pm
Location info: 0
Bamboo Society Membership: EBS - Germany
Location: HALIFAX, NOVA SCOTIA

Re: Small introduction

Post by johnw »

My thought is that if you are able to grow Fargesia nitida in your zone and it freezes to the ground in the winter then it does not sound promising for any Phyllostachys spp.

Of course if you can get them under the snow then you might succeed. What to do when you have a very big clump or grove is the question. Then you will have to be staisfied with Phyllos as a die-back shrub I guess.

Have a look at this summary I posted on Beijing hardy bamboos, I cannot find the article online:

http://www.bambooweb.info/bb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5927

+1c & overcast.
johnw coastal Nova Scotia
User avatar
needmore
Posts: 4899
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:14 pm
Location info: 0
Bamboo Society Membership: ABS - America
Location: Kea'au, HI

Re: Small introduction

Post by needmore »

John, F nitida is not so great here, some Phy's hold up as well or better, this could be soil conditions but I still don't consider it a super hardy bamboo.
Brad Salmon, zone 12B Kea'au, HI
http://www.needmorebamboo.com
User avatar
needmore
Posts: 4899
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:14 pm
Location info: 0
Bamboo Society Membership: ABS - America
Location: Kea'au, HI

Re: Small introduction

Post by needmore »

John I just clicked on your link and somehow had never seen that post before. I think that the glauca 'Notso' might be the variabilis form? If you can find references to how glaucus they are you could tell, the Notso is, well, notso in fact no powder at all. It and my form of propinqua 'Beijing' are surely related. Flexuosa here was a dud and I killed it off. I didn't bother to try nidularia based on results in TN but eventually did obtain a seedling form that has died back all but the mildest winters and remain under 2m tall.

My bamboos except for a few are mostly old enough now that age of planting is not a factor so I feel like I'm getting decent field conditions for observations but so many factors come into play that may not translate to other locations. My seemingly hardiest bamboo might be what I obtained as Phy stimulosa but it is not and I am certain that it is a form of heteroclada. I have the 3 named forms of heteroclada and this one outperforms them all in size & hardiness. Purpurata is a bust, probably a zone 7 bamboo, solidstem is quite hardy but distinct so I do not think it is that and I have multiple plantings of straightstem and they do not gain size and are less hardy than this 'stimulosa'. Don't know then what it is but I should get it trialed elsewhere, my issue is that I planted it on a steep slope and getting divisions is erosive, (I also do not ever water it and rarely have fed it) I did move a piece a couple of years back but this year I really should try to dig some, it has run uphill and downhill, sideways as well and surely I can dig some. It has reached around 6-7m and is neglected or would be larger surely, I do not think that it has ever had culm damage.
Brad Salmon, zone 12B Kea'au, HI
http://www.needmorebamboo.com
johnw
Posts: 1616
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 1:28 pm
Location info: 0
Bamboo Society Membership: EBS - Germany
Location: HALIFAX, NOVA SCOTIA

Re: Small introduction

Post by johnw »

Brad - Ineluki I presume has cool short summers. My point was if nitida grows well and looks good but still freezes back then Phyllos might be a bust. At a friend's last year Alata froze to the ground and Rufa was fried by -22c one night, nitida was untouched.
johnw coastal Nova Scotia
User avatar
needmore
Posts: 4899
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:14 pm
Location info: 0
Bamboo Society Membership: ABS - America
Location: Kea'au, HI

Re: Small introduction

Post by needmore »

Yeah, nitida has frozen back here when some Phy's did not, murielae also has done so, as has rufa but they look fairly decent in summer, I've not seen signs that they hate my summers but have seen signs they hate my winters.
Brad Salmon, zone 12B Kea'au, HI
http://www.needmorebamboo.com
Post Reply