Bamboo seed import restrictions in the US & repostitory?

[svendrix]

I have seen comments, and read some on the ABS site after being pointed to the US' strict controls on importing bamboo and seeds into the US. While I can see both sides of the argument with plants, I'm not so certain I understand the need for the ban on importing bamboo seeds. Are there really danger in importing seeds (other than some pests possibly riding with the seed husks?)

Is the ABS and it's members working with the USDA (or whatever department is in charge) to rectify this situation? If that isn't practical, I have another possible solution:

As someone who started his boonutality with one plant bought at a local ABS chapter auction this past summer, along with a handful of Fargesia nitida seeds, it has shot into a fascinating hobby on my end, which it seems many of you can relate! I have yet to go through my 1st shooting season, so most of my fun has been reading up on boo (here and books) as well as playing around with germinating those Fargesia nitida seeds.

It sure would be fun to try seeds for other species of boo, if it weren't for the dubious ID of seeds on ebay, or illegality of importing them into the US due to (possibly?) archaic laws. Has the ABS discussed starting up a seed repository system where active members could send their extra seeds leftover from recent flowerings of various species?

It doesn't have to be as complex as the Svalbard Global Seed Vault (in case of nuclear war, see the links below for some info and pics of the progress so far). Maybe it could be for ABS members only, to browse online what's available and order at reasonable prices? Maybe the seeds could be available to everyone (legally) able to buy seeds and have them shipped to the customer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_Global_Seed_Vault
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=2126

This doesn't have to be an ABS thing only (though that seems to make more sense?). Maybe it could start out as a bambooweb.info community project. I'd be happy to start collecting properly identified submissions and storing them in my freezer or whatever other method is deemed better... =D

I don't know, just a random thought at the end of a very slow work day due to the 8 inches of snow we got yesterday (flattening my P.bissetii to the ground again)!

---Sven

[Roy]

...........


Is the ABS and it's members working with the USDA (or whatever department is in charge) to rectify this situation? If that isn't practical, I have another possible solution:

...........

---Sven

About 5 plus years ago there was rumbles in ABS about trying to convince the USDA to loosen up on some of the restrictions on bamboo importation. One main issue was reducing the time bamboo must spend in quarantine stations before being released.

I think the main thing that came out of the discussions: "Don't jerk the dog's chain or he might bite you!" The end result of bringing up the loosening of restrictions on bamboo importation might be a ban on importation of bamboo.

[mike best]

Oh no, looks like decades more of the same ole stuff.

At this rate, even Cuba could soon have thousands more bamboo species than the United State thanks to these restrictions. Of coarse at the other extreme we would not want to give those citrus canker guys an extended career jumping our fences looking for bamboo to tag for removal because of who knows what new introduced disease.

Those are extremes.

Science should be able to decided this issue, (period).

Is it the position of the ABS that the current restricitons are based on good science? Then they might be right not to rock the boat, or pull the
dogs chain.

On the other hand, is the ABS is hypocritical not to make
this issue priority? After all isn't it a goal to bring bamboo, and
bamboo education, to Americans and put an end to the dark ages when there were so few species and information?

My line of thinking was that only a lucky few have permits to send/receive bamboo from outside the USA and it is even harder to get this sort of permit or it is not given at all today. This benefits a few, while the masses must wait still many years longer for new species.

Maybe we are lucky to have what we got, and I should shut up but sometimes I can't help but wonder what's going on and where are we going....

There can be no Bamboo Renaissance as long as we put are heads in the sand.

[needmore]

Oh no, looks like decades more of the same ole stuff.

At this rate, even Cuba could soon have thousands more bamboo species than the United State thanks to these restrictions. Of coarse at the other extreme we would not want to give those citrus canker guys an extended career jumping our fences looking for bamboo to tag for removal because of who knows what new introduced disease.

Those are extremes.

Science should be able to decided this issue, (period).

Is it the position of the ABS that the current restricitons are based on good science? Then they might be right not to rock the boat, or pull the
dogs chain.

On the other hand, is the ABS is hypocritical not to make
this issue priority? After all isn't it a goal to bring bamboo, and
bamboo education, to Americans and put an end to the dark ages when there were so few species and information?

My line of thinking was that only a lucky few have permits to send/receive bamboo from outside the USA and it is even harder to get this sort of permit or it is not given at all today. This benefits a few, while the masses must wait still many years longer for new species.

Maybe we are lucky to have what we got, and I should shut up but sometimes I can't help but wonder what's going on and where are we going....

There can be no Bamboo Renaissance as long as we put are heads in the sand.

Change in the activities of the ABS will surely be accelerated by more people with opinions about what it should be doing, joining and making their opinons/ideas known (look for my article in the next magazine issue - if you are a member). Some of us are trying but as long as we are the minority voice, we will continue to have trouble getting any serious dialog going. You know the urge to speak louder when you are experiencing a language barrier - we could use some reinforcements.

[ghmerrill]

Unfortunately the USDA is mostly run by the nightmares of "what if" rather than the reason of science. Too many analogies between what I would like to see in the plant world, being looser restrictions, and what I have seen in the animal world- lax restrictions leading to mistakes, leading to complete ban......

Also with any governing body, the head of the body gets to determine what happens, and if that person does not like it, it does not happen, no matter how strong the evidence opposite their opinion!

sorry for the rant, but governmental ideologies are somewhat of a soapbox topic for me.......

Gene

[ocimum_nate]

I see some rationality behind restricting plant imports for inspection and quarantine but i find the stance on seeds also being held to the same standard irrational. With all of the international travel going on these days the kinds of pathogens that could hitch a ride on a seed could just as easily ride on someones shoes and be brought into the country without a second thought or restriction. I think that it would be reasonable to require seeds to be inspected and screened for pathogens but given the limited life span of the seeds something should be done to get them through more quickly.

[foxd]

I have to wonder how some of the businesses selling bamboo seed are getting them. Hirt's Gardens and Seedman to name a couple. Perhaps they should be asked about this, there could be something about exceptions to seed import we don't know.

Also, it might be interesting to start gathering techniques people have used to induce flowering in various species.

[mike best]

I understand the USDA or these type of government authorities are under staffed, and under budgeted (actually I think they are mismanaged and can't focus cause they are to far spread out) and that's where all the problems begin. Bottom line: mismanagment.

And lets not forget Murphy's Law how an antiquated system could encourage people to use alternative means such as illegal importation.

Just a far reaching theory of mine do you think the early ancient Asian peoples cultivation, and transportation of bamboo is why the Asian continent has so many species while our continent has so little? (Seems to me that bamboo has a disadvantaged way of reproducing and would need human intervention to spread and cultivate itself to that extent).

We really don't know what pathogens were spread so long ago and must assume natural selection has long ago taken place to give todays result.

Or on the other hand maybe we have less species of bamboo because of human intervention, who knows?

[foxd]

Just a far reaching theory of mine do you think the early ancient Asian peoples cultivation, and transportation of bamboo is why the Asian continent has so many species while our continent has so little? (Seems to me that bamboo has a disadvantaged way of reproducing and would need human intervention to spread and cultivate itself to that extent).

While North America only has about three species we know of, there are many hundreds in South America. I see that as comparable to the rest of the World.

Human intervention certainly helps spread it, it is just so useful.

My hypothesis about bamboo seeding is that it seeds just enough to compensate for changes in the environment. If the environment changes enough to stress the bamboo, it flowers.

Another reason to push the envelope on growing bamboo, it can trigger seed production resulting in bamboo better adapted to the climate.

[Roy]

Just a far reaching theory of mine do you think the early ancient Asian peoples cultivation, and transportation of bamboo is why the Asian continent has so many species while our continent has so little? (Seems to me that bamboo has a disadvantaged way of reproducing and would need human intervention to spread and cultivate itself to that extent).

While North America only has about three species we know of, there are many hundreds in South America. I see that as comparable to the rest of the World.

Human intervention certainly helps spread it, it is just so useful.

My hypothesis about bamboo seeding is that it seeds just enough to compensate for changes in the environment. If the environment changes enough to stress the bamboo, it flowers.

Another reason to push the envelope on growing bamboo, it can trigger seed production resulting in bamboo better adapted to the climate.

I like your hypothesis. I know that different types of stress can make bamboo flower, but I've never though about it in the same way as you presented it.

I used fire/smoke to get my B. m. 'A. Karr' to flower. I just wonder if my seedlings produced from this experiment have any genetic differences related to fire/smoke that caused the mother plant to flower? I know that some plants have a reproduction strategy based upon fire/burning.

[mike best]

Total ban on bamboo importation?
If you look at the orange industry here in Florida, you see thanks to them we are blessed with a variety of hybrids, for our backyards, many are not even used for production. Without the industry we might still be stuck with the sour orange the Indians used. With the huge industry came pathogens, citrus canker, and total bans here and there, and threats of total bans, but the point is that with all the negatives I still can go into my yard and pick a variety of the most Delicious oranges.

while we might get this issue of the USDA resolved anytime soon, there is one thing I think most of us can do now. The boo industry hardly exist from what I can see here in the USA. I go to various vender's websites and I see these tiny little photos of tiny little plants less than a year old in some cases. Come on folks, Eye candy sells! Bamboo flooring is one type of eye candy, and it sells. If there is to be a bamboo Renaissance for plant vendors then we need to show some good photos of mature specimens and how they relate to your back yard.

[svendrix]

mikebest,

That is a GORGEOUS shot. As a boo-bie who only has small containers of boo at this point, what species are those and how old are they? My eyes count three very large boo, and one possibly ornamental boo or some other type of grass by the fountain.

Back to the topic:

I do like the points being brought up on this topic by everyone. My main point is, "how dangerous can a boo seed be?", so it seems like if the seeds are found to be pathogen-free upon inspection, it should be a non-issue. Maybe it's not even the original intent of the law behind it. I don't know much on the history of the law. OK, I tracked down the link on the ABS website Bill gave us in the ebay seed thread:

http://www.americanbamboo.org/GeneralIn ... ntine.html

The ban on bamboo importation has been in effect for 90 years this coming October 1st! The link above mentions that the "dangerous bamboo smut" had not caused any problems, and other bamboo pests haven't harmed any other plants.

It seems that pointing this out, and other good science should be able to help us here. Then again, maybe it is so bureaucratic/political at the USDA that I'm being naive that this can actually be changed.

P.S. As a side note, it looks like the abs has mispelled the scientific name for bamboo smut? I copied and pasted that into google and only 3 links showed up, if you choose the spelling they suggest instead (Ustilago shiraiana, no second letter "I" in Ustilago), you get a TON of results. Not sure if someone here knows who can fix that on the ABS website.

Also, it looks like Lennart Hilding Lundstrom of the Hawai'i chapter of the ABS made a formal request to the USDA in November 2005 to relax the rules, and his letter is pretty well written in it's attempt to be persuasive to the USDA, and why. It is specific to the needs of tissue culture/plantation growers needs, but still applies to this topic of course. Does anyone know Lennart and can ask him what he may have experienced as part of his request process, and what the results to his request were? You can read his request below:

http://www.usda.gov/FBFComments/Files/5115152-1.pdf

---Sven

[bambooweb]

About 5 year ago the length of quarantine was changed from two years to one year but nothing has happened since then.

Sven,
Len Lundstrom is now on the ABS board from Hawaii and you can reach him at HI-Chapter@americanbamboo.org

Bill

[svendrix]

Thanks Bill, I shot off an email and will post back whatever I find out.

Wow, does anyone know of any bamboo that is tornado tolerant? =D Today we had one touch down near Vancouver, WA, just North of Portland, OR!!!!! That is just too weird!

---Sven

[mike best]

Wow, does anyone know of any bamboo that is tornado tolerant? =D Today we had one touch down near Vancouver, WA, just North of Portland, OR!!!!! That is just too weird!

---Sven

Roy specializes in that sort of boo. He has one that is so popular word is spreading like wildfire with his coastal customers. It tolerates tornado's, hurricanes, and salty sea breeze's!!!!!

mikebest,

That is a GORGEOUS shot. As a boo-bie who only has small containers of boo at this point, what species are those and how old are they? My eyes count three very large boo, and one possibly ornamental boo or some other type of grass by the fountain.


---Sven

The large bamboo in the center background is a 5 year old Bambusa ventricosa (Buddha's Belly) with the lower branches removed to expose the culms. The tall boo to the left is Bambusa emeiensis 'Viridiflavus', it was a one culm field specimen transplanted to my back yard in May, 2006, it now has something like 25 culms. To the right is a tall Bambusa
tuldoides (PUNTING POLE) about 2 year old transplant, mixed in under it is a 4 year old mass of Phyllostachys aurea, further back barley visible is a 2 year old Clone X which is going to out pace the Buddha Belly, and up front right hand corner is one feathery culm showing of Otatea
acuminata ssp. Aztecorum (MEXICAN WEEPING).

svendrix, that link you found was interesting and hope you hear back what Lennart Hilding Lundstrom has learned.